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PostPosted: Sun Oct 04, 2009 4:09 pm 
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Einherjar
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traptunderice wrote:
I have no ideology in my views. I'm a Marxist just like Western society is subliminally empiricists. I'm not bent on some eschatological goal of utopia. Framework of thought =/= ideology.


Your framework of thought is shaped by Marx and a group of other persons who associate their own beliefs with that of Marx and believe themselves to be carrying on his legacy; it's an ideology. Looks like an ideology, quacks like an ideology... i'll be durned, it must be an ideology!

traptunderice wrote:
As for the Maghreb, has your epiphany made you forget the latent Leftism in the Algerian War a la some Fanon? It may also have nothing to do with them electing a socialist party over ten years ago. I can state tons of examples of religion's ill effects on Africa but what does that get us? What it boils down to is that religion is a destablizing, regressive force in a continent under harsh economic stress and oppression.


By far the vast majority of motivational forces, political or otherwise, within the Maghreb, are based in Islam. You would be more aware of this if you had, say, known about the Algerian elections in 1991 which tore the country to shreds, all because the secular semi-socialist ruling elite couldn't stand the Islamic party winning the elections.

And yes, I am very very afraid of 'or else.' Alas! I might no longer be able to post on a website dedicated to music I do not listen to! What an unspeakable terror that would be.

But of course, my prior years of agitation within these boards weren't even close to being considered grounds for anything of that sort, but post a few posts about the obvious sickness and degeneracy of secular society in a Helheim thread and out come the banners.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 04, 2009 4:15 pm 
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I object to these Commie Ay-rabs running around in here. This ain't what we defeated Hitler for.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 04, 2009 4:22 pm 
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Goat wrote:
I object to these Commie Ay-rabs running around in here. This ain't what we defeated Hitler for.


"We" ?

haha, kidding, of course...

Everybody should just lighten the fuck up and enjoy life for a while; It's a beautiful October day (or night, depending on which side of the globe you're on); throw a football around, make out with your girlfriend, boyfriend, go for a walk, anything but waste your limited life span arguing about the inarguable.

In the words of Tyler Durden:
This is your life, and it is ending one minute at a time.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 04, 2009 4:23 pm 
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cry of the banshee wrote:
Goat wrote:
I object to these Commie Ay-rabs running around in here. This ain't what we defeated Hitler for.


"We" ?


the British and the Russians.

cry of the banshee wrote:
haha, kidding, of course...

Everybody should just lighten the fuck up and enjoy life for a while; It's a beautiful October day (or night, depending on which side of the globe you're on); throw a football around, make out with your girlfriend, boyfriend, go for a walk, anything but waste your limited life span arguing about the inarguable.

In the words of Tyler Durden:
This is your life, and it is ending one minute at a time.


Freezing cold, over here. But yes, otherwise.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 04, 2009 4:29 pm 
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Einherjar
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That'd be nice, but I've got all this work to do.

I'll go out after (if) it's ever done.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 04, 2009 5:02 pm 
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Ist Krieg
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Dead Machine wrote:
traptunderice wrote:
I have no ideology in my views. I'm a Marxist just like Western society is subliminally empiricists. I'm not bent on some eschatological goal of utopia. Framework of thought =/= ideology.


Your framework of thought is shaped by Marx and a group of other persons who associate their own beliefs with that of Marx and believe themselves to be carrying on his legacy; it's an ideology. Looks like an ideology, quacks like an ideology... i'll be durned, it must be an ideology!
The common use of the phrase ideology equates to dogma. If you want to use the actual definition, everyone has an ideology and ideology essentially is a framework of thought. I'm sure that's how you were using it when referring to communism and fascism. :rolleyes:

Dead Machine wrote:
traptunderice wrote:
As for the Maghreb, has your epiphany made you forget the latent Leftism in the Algerian War a la some Fanon? It may also have nothing to do with them electing a socialist party over ten years ago. I can state tons of examples of religion's ill effects on Africa but what does that get us? What it boils down to is that religion is a destablizing, regressive force in a continent under harsh economic stress and oppression.


By far the vast majority of motivational forces, political or otherwise, within the Maghreb, are based in Islam. You would be more aware of this if you had, say, known about the Algerian elections in 1991 which tore the country to shreds, all because the secular semi-socialist ruling elite couldn't stand the Islamic party winning the elections.

And yes, I am very very afraid of 'or else.' Alas! I might no longer be able to post on a website dedicated to music I do not listen to! What an unspeakable terror that would be.

But of course, my prior years of agitation within these boards weren't even close to being considered grounds for anything of that sort, but post a few posts about the obvious sickness and degeneracy of secular society in a Helheim thread and out come the banners.
Islam isn't contradictory to a revolutionary force as seen in Iran but whatever. It sounds like you kicked Marxism out the door and your humor it seems along with it. I was making fun of frig if anything.

Oh god I would love to be outside with my woman but alas we have jobs with conflicting schedules and I have tons of work to do before tomorrow morning.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 6:06 am 
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Dead Machine wrote:
1) your argument is based in a lack of understanding concerning the incredible influence that religious folk of all sorts have had in the USA from the get-go; I would suggest that you read some comprehensive religious history books to fill this lack.


We are discussing your theory that lack of want is the source of atheism, that somehow the necessary consequence of material fulfillment is a spiritual void.

Dead Machine wrote:
2) the lowest rates of atheism are in undeveloped countries, not in the USA. Various polls have found the rate of atheism in the USA to be anywhere from 4%-9%


Vietnam - 81%
Japan - 64%
USA - 3%
Italy - 6%

At the very least, the numbers suggest no causation or correlation with materialism.

Dead Machine wrote:
as compared to the nearly nonexistent rates in, say, Senegal or Mauritania


My friend the witch doctor, he told me what to say. My friend the witch doctor, he told me what to do ..


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 11:01 am 
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traptunderice wrote:
What you're saying is completely contradictory to Marx's writings and it makes me just realize you can distort anything as being an evil of capitalism. When people are free from God, then they are free to put their faith in themselves whether that leads to surmounting or submitting to capitalism isn't based on atheism but on their class consciousness.

Religious societies are sick. The ones that have want use religion like a crutch and without that crutch maybe they could move forward to developing a class consciousness and overthrowing those who oppress them. Religion in Africa has created witchcraft hunts in the slums; it has done nothing to turn those slums into livable habitats.

Human beings thought they were kings of the universe even when God was still around in their minds; they were just kings with divine backing then.


Indeed... "Marxism" pre-Lenin was supposed to be about rational enquiry and a materialist analysis of the scientific laws of society. The idea that Marx would have seen the atheistic, materialistic West as a "disease" contaminating the good, spiritual third world is completely laughable.

Dude, did you ever read Winstanley? If you can get round the Olde Englishe, it's inspirational.

http://www.rogerlovejoy.co.uk/philosoph ... ggers2.htm

He was quite possibly the first person in Europe to advocate "communist" ideas (although obv. the term didn't exist then). He said that all existing hierarchy was based on the oppressive manipulation of religion, and originally accumulated, of course, by violent means. As such, people had to find God within themselves, using their own Reason, rather than receiving scripture from above, which was simply a manifestation of the existing power structure. In effect, human Reason IS God.

And the "Fall", i.e. the snake giving Eve the apple, is a metaphor for the first man obtaining domination over another.

Quote:
O what mighty Delusion, do you, who are the powers of England live in! That while you pretend to throw down that Norman yoke, and Babylonish power, and have promised to make the groaning people of England a Free People; yet you still lift up that Norman yoke, and slavish Tyranny, and holds the People as much in bondage, as the Bastard Conquerour himself, and his Councel of War.

Take notice, That England is not a Free People, till the Poor that have no Land, have a free allowance to dig and labour the Commons, and so live as Comfortably as the Landlords that live in their Inclosures. For the People have not laid out their Monies, and shed their Bloud, that their Landlords, theNorman power, should still have its liberty and freedom to rule in Tyranny in his Lords, landlords, Judges, Justices, Bayliffs, and State Servants; but that the Oppressed might be set Free, Prison doors opened, and the Poor peoples hearts comforted by an universal Consent of making the Earth a Common Treasury, that they may live together as one House of Israel, united in brotherly love into one Spirit; and having a comfortable livelihood in the Community of one Earth their Mother.

If you look through the Earth, you shall see, That the landlords, Teachers and Rulers, are Oppressors, Murtherers, and Theeves in this manner; But it was not thus from the Beginning. And this is one Reason of our digging and labouring the Earth one with another; That we might work in righteousness, and lift up the Creation from bondage: For so long as we own Landlords in this Corrupt Settlement, we cannot work in righteousness; for we should still lift up the Curse, and tread down the Creation, dishonour the Spirit of universal Liberty, and hinder the work of Restauration.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 11:12 am 
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GeneralDiomedes wrote:
We are discussing your theory that lack of want is the source of atheism, that somehow the necessary consequence of material fulfillment is a spiritual void.


Here your assertion is that what I just pointed out doesn't matter, this is after I said that the USA has a particular atmosphere fueled by a history of Christian fanaticism and publicly influential religious figures.

Are you professing that you cannot see why that would be relevant?

GeneralDiomedes wrote:
Vietnam - 81%
Japan - 64%
USA - 3%
Italy - 6%

At the very least, the numbers suggest no causation or correlation with materialism.


If you could say where these numbers are from rather than just listing them down like that then that might be a big help.

GeneralDiomedes wrote:
My friend the witch doctor, he told me what to say. My friend the witch doctor, he told me what to do ..


You're very patronizing towards the third world.

I also do not care what Marx would have 'bought.' I am not a Marxist; I am a Muslim.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 11:14 am 
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So how do you justify Islamic beliefs?

_________________
I am not here, then, as the accused; I am here as the accuser of capitalism dripping with blood from head to foot.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 11:32 am 
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I love how DM's gone from Jew to Commie to Muslim. It'll be Scientology next. Either he's trolling, in which case :lol: :lol: :lol: or he's serious, in which case :lol: :lol: :lol: . Either way, wins all around.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 11:34 am 
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Dead Machine wrote:

I also do not care what Marx would have 'bought.' I am not a Marxist; I am a Muslim.


So has this been the case since, like, yesterday, when you replaced the Hammer and Sickles with star and crescents, or has it been brewing for longer? Do you actually believe in the truth of the Qu'ran or is it some solidarity with oppressed peoples thing?

Not delibrately trying to be an arse, but just asking...


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 11:35 am 
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Goat wrote:
I love how DM's gone from Jew to Commie to Muslim. It'll be Scientology next. Either he's trolling, in which case :lol: :lol: :lol: or he's serious, in which case :lol: :lol: :lol: . Either way, wins all around.


The real winner here is the god of :lol: .

*Tries in vain to think of a religious reference which can incorporate "lol"*


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 12:01 pm 
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It is a teensy bit big, that avatar is. Can you reduce it a bit, DM, just so it's more in line with other avatars? Obviously I don't want to infringe upon your freedom to be religious or anything.

Don't the PLO or some other Palestinian terrorist scum claim to be socialist? Maybe that's your solution, Aaron! Or is it Abdullah now?


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 2:37 pm 
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Talk about your self-hating jew.
Just don't go blowing yourself up...


I'm sorry, that was horrible, but I had to do it.
It... it... was ... The Devil, yeah, the Devil made me do it. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.
:lol:


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 2:50 pm 
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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... -past.html

Hmm...


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 2:59 pm 
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Goat wrote:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/iran/6256173/Mahmoud-Ahmadinejad-revealed-to-have-Jewish-past.html

Hmm...


A clear case of protesting too much?

Well, there you go; the one shouting the loudest is usually the one with the most to hide.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 3:32 pm 
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Dead Machine wrote:
I also do not care what Marx would have 'bought.' I am not a Marxist; I am a Muslim.
Wow. Umm the fact that you see Islam and Marxism as contradictory shows how big of an idiot you are. Go buy Welcome to the Desert of the Real by Zizek.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 10:20 pm 
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http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/blog/shutdo ... nfl,194364

It's always amusing when this happens, as if whatever god there may be actually gives a damn about, or had anything to do with, a touchdown.

:lol:


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 10:44 am 
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rio wrote:
So has this been the case since, like, yesterday, when you replaced the Hammer and Sickles with star and crescents, or has it been brewing for longer? Do you actually believe in the truth of the Qu'ran or is it some solidarity with oppressed peoples thing?

Not delibrately trying to be an arse, but just asking...


I had a religious experience and converted 22 days ago. I believe in the Qur'an and Allah and the Last Day.

Also, Islam and marxism are definitely incompatible, trapt. Great swathes of marxist theory are incompatible with key tenets of Islam. It does reflect certain things, like wealth redistribution and social justice, and Islamic economics are definitely quite leftist as a whole, but they stop short of marxist. More like social-democracy. Similarly, popular democracy is also incompatible with Islam. I don't see the need for name-calling.

the PLO was a secular organization and only nominally socialist post-1982. PFLP and PFLP-GC are socialist, and also secular, plus they are no longer very prominent. Fatah is also secular and not really close to socialist at all.

EDIT- also, Goat, it stretches the screen the same amount as my last avatar. What's the big deal?


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