Metal Reviews

early Theatre of Tragedy described as funeral doom? :shock:

A guy on another forum I browse insisted that they are, then insisted that they have enough of the elements of funeral doom to be considered part of the genre. Frankly, I think it's nonsense, and I've never heard anyone else every say such a thing. Funeral doom is Thergothon, Esoteric, Evoken, etc., and in my opinion, ToT (eveon on the self-titled) sound very little like funeral doom even on the "doomiest" parts of the album. Have I missed something?

-Tyrion

there are bands that play a very romantic style which still gets classified as funeral.. Mournful Congregation and Shape of Despair come to mind. not sure about ToT either way, though.

Well, early Theatre Of Tragedy was very slow and doomy, so I can see why people would call them funeral doom. I would say they were more doom-death on Theatre Of Tragedy and Velvet Darkness They Fear, then more like atmospheric gothic death on Aegis, then of course they went techno (or whatever you call it).

So, unless someone is labelling them funeral doom on Musique and onward I wouldn't get so worked up over it.

The early stuff was slow and doomy, sure, but funeral doom? I would have to say no. Turns out, however, that said person does not really recognize gothic metal as a valid genre, which may mean certain albums get shuffled into other categories while others remain in gray areas (like "Beyond the Veil"). To me, the self-titled is pretty much gothic doom metal.

ToT just isn't quite slow enough or dark and brooding enough for me to put them in the realm of funeal doom, but I was curious if anyone else had any thoughts on it. Thanks for the replies.

-Tyrion

True, but they're not too far removed from that style, so the label isn't as ridiculous as, say, called Chaos A.D. a nu-metal album.

I totally disagree (of course), I think the 1st two albums are pure Gothic Metal, in the Vein of what Paradise Lost and Anathema started, just slowed down with heavier symphonic/classical elements, of cours the doom tag applies because Gothic Metal is an offshot of that style. Draconian, Slumber, Daylight Dies, Rapture, they follow this style somewhat

Aegis - I don't see how it can have any 'Death' elements since dude sings clean it? It is basically the first two albums stripped down with clean (gothic clean) vocals. I would like at mid period Lacrimas Profundre for another comparison

for the Death/Gothic style I would point to bands like Crematory, Godgory, Swano on Moontower, Moonspell, Darkseed and others of that ilk.

Gothic Metal is really a broad genere when you think about it, because it also houses total crap like Epica, Xandria and Darkwell as well.

Just my opinion.

Actually, that's one of the problems I have with the gothic metal genre. I think too many bands get labeled in that genre even though they really don't belong there, and I think that hurts both the genre and the bands, at times.

I also wouldn't exclude "doom" as a term here because of the roots of gothic metal. To me, ToT's self-titled almost has to be considered gothic doom metal (if you think "gothic" is a legitimate genre or sub-genre), and not just gothic metal. On the other hand, you can't apply gothic doom metal to Tristania's "Beyond the Veil" (for example) because the doom elements aren't there like they are on their first album. Also, if we simply apply gothic metal to 'BtV', but in such a way that suggests there is an implied element of doom, that doesn't really work either because as I said, the doom elements aren't there. And I say this with regards, not just to nitpicking about genres, but because I think it has real application if you're going to try to describe the music to a new listener whether or not they have any working knowledge of metal genres.

-Tyrion

As long as bands like Evoken, Esoteric and Tyranny don't appear in the same sentence as the word "gothic", I'm fine with early ToT being classified as such.

It is a wide open Genre at times, bands fit into the falling catogories:

Doomy and depressive suicide and loss themed songs drawing direct inspiration from Anathema/MDB and Paradise Lost. The lyrical content and image makes it more "Goth" then actually following the Goth Rock bands of the 80's.

The use of Female Vocals/Beauty and the beast mixed with a very classical, dark romantic sound....Again, see Anathema and Paradise Lost (especially their "Gothic" album and track 12 on Icon, I forget how to spell it but you all know it)

This was really the first wave of bands....Gathering, ToT, The Sins, Tristania and a shit load of Polish one (Artrosis, Darzamat etc..)

Next you have the other side of the coin of "Gothic" Metal from when bands like Atrocity, Tiamat, Lacrimas Profundre etc changed their style dramatically, this again is directly related to Paradise Lost (see a trend here) after they released One Second. This time emphasis is placed much more on the Clean vocals emulating Andrew Eldritch. ToT of course would follow suite with the stripped down Aegis before losing themselves.

At the same time several Black Metal bands were experimenting with more atmospheric songs, classical string, keyboards, fem vocals etc, drawing on the succes of the Mid 90's B/b acts and Cradle of Filth with their image. This led to bands like Opera IX, Graveworm, Ancient Ceremony and several others.

Then Finland struck, not so much with HIM and the 69 Eyes which are PURE Gothic Rock straight from the 80's, but more along the lines of Sentenced with their "Death" Rock act. These bands almost entirely dropped the Metal side of things except the Guitars and the "Gothic" style has nothing to do with the early efforts of the British 3 but pure Eldritch worhsip (and some One Second) acts like Entwine, To/Die/For, Lullacry (fem fronted), For My Pain, Charon, Beseech (althogh very doomy on their first release) etc creating yet a 3rd example in the same genre.

Creating a 4th genre in a genre wasn't easy but hold on, next we get a whole bunch of bands directly inspired by the total change of direction we see in the Gathering with only Annke doing the vocals in Mandylion, Nighttime Birds, If then Else, etc. We get Flowing Tears, massive changes from Darzamat and Artrocis.

Now the 5th comes from the massive popularity of the fem fronted Nightwish you aren't really Gothic Metal at all, but you take what they did with Symphonic Heavy Metal, and you mix it with varying mixes of the above 4 styles to certain degree and you get what is pretty much the "standard" today for Goth Metal, which means Fem vocals, heavily symphonic neo classical Heavy Metal and some rough Male vocals. After Forever, Xandria, Epica, Elias etc etc.

Then you have almost a 6th Catagory with a bunch of bands that don't really fit in anywhere, stuff by Crematory, Darkseed, Black Shine, The Black League that pay a lot of attention to Wolverine Blues Entombed and Draconian Times Paradise Lost.

So no matter love it or hate Gothic Metal is really one of the most diversified generes in Heavy Metal and maybe the single hardest to breakdown what is Gothic Metal and What Isn't.

Sorry for spelling, I like to type fast. Anyways, all the different styles and bands is what keeps me coming back to the really good ones, it just doesn't get old unless you let it by buying 9000 copy cats versions of Mandylion or Widow Weeds.

Darzamat are pretty cool.

http://www.myspace.com/darzamat

Thanks for actually agreeing with me.


I said "like atmospheric gothic death." Since when is a vocalist the only death element in death metal?

What makes Death metal Death Metal? The vocals.....if you put clean singing on all the Death Metal albums from 89 to 95 you have the next generation of trash. Death Metal (unlike Black Metal) needs its vocals to define it, because with out that you are left with pretty much Trad Metal shooting off from IM and others (Euro style with some exceptions) and Brutal/Fast thrash (from the US).

There is not one single ounce of "Death Metal" found on Aegis.

If you like them you would probably dig Artrosis

Right, vocals define it, but take away the vocals and that does not take away all death metal elements.