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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2006 4:26 am 
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Action Jesus wrote:
Many of our early presidents were bad or weak as well. Most presidents have had some pretty major flaws.

I did not say liberalism IS hateful (I agree with most of it) rather that we have hateful liberals. I know it is a bit of an oxymoron but it is true. They will hurl insults at anyone disagreeing with them more than any other political entity I've conversed with and are extremelly difficult to debate with. They will spout information off as "facts" whilest having little or no proof but rather their own assumptions, imagination, or just something they saw online one day. The attitude of many of these are despicable which actually both helps and hinders their support. Michael Moore has a huge following because of his controversy, but if the same people who praise him as a genius delved a little deeper, they would find a lot of bullshit. At the same time, a lot of people hate him because of his negative attitude towards... everything he disagrees with. Good causes are being driven into polar opposites because of it.

With more observation of my comment, I will say Carnifex is right in a way. I think that we are dividing more and more as a nation into BOTH extremes. So I should have also added "Man, this country is becoming a more unaccepting, conservative society."

Sure, and conservatives are a bunch of bible-thumping warmongers who freak out at the very idea of homosexuality or any identity different than their own hypocritical "family values." They put so much blind faith in Bush that Congress not only passed the original Patriot Act but then upheld it as constitutional when any idiot can see it's a flagrant violation of the principles on which this country was founded. There are plenty of people who support Bush, but a lot of people hate him because of his rampant stupidity and brain-bleeding-inducing butchery of the English language.

As you can see, such generalizations can be made of both sides, and are fairly useless in a political discussion.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2006 4:42 am 
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Not when I was trying to make a point that BOTH sides are equally bad for their own respective reasons and that something should be done about it.

P.S. The principles on which this country can be interpreted in so many different ways that none are really right or wrong. For example, a large principle was that of the protection of citizens from any physical threat, be it foreign or domestic. It was a common idea that the first responsibility of government is to protect the people from physical harm. The whole idea of a "social contract" (in this case, the U.S. Constitution) is based upon that.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2006 5:20 am 
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Action Jesus wrote:
Not when I was trying to make a point that BOTH sides are equally bad for their own respective reasons and that something should be done about it.

P.S. The principles on which this country can be interpreted in so many different ways that none are really right or wrong. For example, a large principle was that of the protection of citizens from any physical threat, be it foreign or domestic. It was a common idea that the first responsibility of government is to protect the people from physical harm. The whole idea of a "social contract" (in this case, the U.S. Constitution) is based upon that.

"They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security."

Somehow I doubt Ben Franklin would have approved of the Patriot Act.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2006 5:30 am 
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Look, I'm not going to debate with you on the Patriot Act. Ben Franklin is just one of our founders who had his own influence and principles. Keep in mind that the right to life is named first before liberty and property which reinforces my point that some (not all) of the founders believed that it is the first responsibility of the government to protect life itself. My point is that it's useless to fall back on the "founding principle" arguement because there are so many different interpretations and that Bush didn't shift himself from any principles, just had a different interpretation of them.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2006 5:46 am 
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Action Jesus wrote:
Look, I'm not going to debate with you on the Patriot Act. Ben Franklin is just one of our founders who had his own influence and principles. Keep in mind that the right to life is named first before liberty and property which reinforces my point that some (not all) of the founders believed that it is the first responsibility of the government to protect life itself. My point is that it's useless to fall back on the "founding principle" arguement because there are so many different interpretations and that Bush didn't shift himself from any principles, just had a different interpretation of them.

None of what I said in the anti-conservative post was meant to be taken seriously for the purposes of this discussion. My point was that your anti-liberal post was a useless generalization. Yeah, there are plenty of left-wing idiots doing more to harm their causes than help; you can find them at any protest. However, there are just as many, if not more, right-wing idiots in this country. Attacking "liberals" in general is fallacious and useless.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2006 5:57 am 
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Didn't you see my correction when I said both are at fault? Both sides are littered with those idiots. That was my point. The reason I mentioned liberals first and just them was because of DM's reaction.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2006 9:41 am 
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Well, if it becomes more sensible eventually then I suppose I'll continue to watch. :D

let's not have this become a typical political conversation though, every forum has archives full of them already..


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2006 10:16 am 
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So, 24 eh? :roll:

How is season 5 going? I still enjoyed seasons 3 & 4 despite them getting monumentally stupid/recycled.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2006 10:24 am 
I really enjoyed season 4. It's just amazing how many events they can pack into 24 hours! I'm of course particularly proud that the main baddie, Habeeb Marwan (Arnold Vosloo), is South African.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2006 10:36 am 
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Blade wrote:
I really enjoyed season 4. It's just amazing how many events they can pack into 24 hours! I'm of course particularly proud that the main baddie, Habeeb Marwan (Arnold Vosloo), is South African.


***SPOILER***

W00t, another convenient get-him-out-of-the-way bad guy death!


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2006 12:21 pm 
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I've only ever seen a few episodes and I was actually interested in checking this show out. So you guys say it's pretty good, eh?


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2006 1:00 pm 
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I don't suppose you're based in the UK?

Nice and cheap:
http://www.play.com/play247.asp?pa=search&searchtype=r2title&searchstring=24&page=search


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2006 1:14 pm 
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Nah, American. I'll probably pick them up at Blockbuster if I'm convinced that it's worth watching.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2006 2:38 pm 
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Just to wrench the conversation away again, at least Bush isn't a kiddie-fiddler like that other one. But that's the best I can say for him...


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2006 12:25 am 
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Liberals piss me off and I hate cons with the passion of a 1000 burning suns.

Now about 24
Season 4 was very conservative leaning, but that has largely tilted the other way in season 5. Season 5 has been good so far I think, but the sappy love story stuff has got to stop! I don't know anyone that watches this show for anything other that action and twists, even if they are often hard to buy.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2006 12:28 am 
emperorblackdoom wrote:
Liberals piss me off and I hate cons with the passion of a 1000 burning suns.

Now about 24
Season 4 was very conservative leaning, but that has largely tilted the other way in season 5. Season 5 has been good so far I think, but the sappy love story stuff has got to stop! I don't know anyone that watches this show for anything other that action and twists, even if they are often hard to buy.


I don't know anything of Season 5 (I'm watching the 4th these days as it is on french tv) but I do agree romance in 24 is pointless and annoying... the only purpose of anyone gfriend/wife/bfriend/husband is to be threatened by terrorists...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2006 7:51 am 
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Stefan wrote:
emperorblackdoom wrote:
Liberals piss me off and I hate cons with the passion of a 1000 burning suns.

Now about 24
Season 4 was very conservative leaning, but that has largely tilted the other way in season 5. Season 5 has been good so far I think, but the sappy love story stuff has got to stop! I don't know anyone that watches this show for anything other that action and twists, even if they are often hard to buy.


I don't know anything of Season 5 (I'm watching the 4th these days as it is on french tv) but I do agree romance in 24 is pointless and annoying... the only purpose of anyone gfriend/wife/bfriend/husband is to be threatened by terrorists...



Exactly. Who watches the show for that crap? Nobody!


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2006 9:21 am 
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Ist Krieg
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emperorblackdoom wrote:
Stefan wrote:
emperorblackdoom wrote:
Liberals piss me off and I hate cons with the passion of a 1000 burning suns.

Now about 24
Season 4 was very conservative leaning, but that has largely tilted the other way in season 5. Season 5 has been good so far I think, but the sappy love story stuff has got to stop! I don't know anyone that watches this show for anything other that action and twists, even if they are often hard to buy.


I don't know anything of Season 5 (I'm watching the 4th these days as it is on french tv) but I do agree romance in 24 is pointless and annoying... the only purpose of anyone gfriend/wife/bfriend/husband is to be threatened by terrorists...



Exactly. Who watches the show for that crap? Nobody!

It worked in the first season.

As for the increase in conservative leanings - remember as of season 4 its a Republican government. So whether you like it or not, there's more realism in the higher-ups leaning to the right.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2006 3:50 pm 
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I nearly got the first season out from the local vid rental a while back, but didn't have enough time. Is it really 24 x 1 hour episodes?! Or is that rubbish.....?


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2006 3:53 pm 
Zad wrote:
I nearly got the first season out from the local vid rental a while back, but didn't have enough time. Is it really 24 x 1 hour episodes?! Or is that rubbish.....?


actually, it's 24x1hour minus the commercials... so it's 1 hour long on american tv but the episodes only last about 45mn....


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