Metal Reviews

I remember seeing somewhere on the forums that Jazz drummers were better than metal drummers... I could care less, because it's all in the eyes of the beholder. But, still, it got me wondering.

Any recommendations? Something a metal fan could jump into? I like extremes, so maybe mention those as well.

Okay.

The Indigo Swing is a swing outfit I've been raving about lately (it seems nobody else here has really listened to them though, hence the lack of responses to my "Hit/Miss poll about them." Check out some samples of their album All Aboard on Amazon.com.

There's a thread in here somewhere about Jazz, Stefan (TIE) made some good reccommendations.

Well the jazz "canon"... ie the three or four most definitively towering jazz musicians, is probably Louis Armstrong, Charlie Parker, John Coltrane, Miles Davis... These are probably the "Sabbath, Priest, Maiden" equivalent. But of course there are thousands to recommend. When you say "extreme" do you just mean very loud and discordant and painful to listen to? Or do you mean very kind of intellectual and "high brow", which a lot of jazz is, I suppose...

Highbrow.

Jaga Jazzist

Mahavishnu Orchestra! Get the Birds of Fire or Inner Mounting Flame releases.

And then some Davis. Al Foster era is my fave, Star People. Coltrane is great too, but all I have by him are songs.

Okay, I'll go with those suggestions, and find some stuff. Thanks.

Modern bands/artists:

Django Bates' Human Chain- Incredibly complex compositions, and very bizarre deconstructions of famous songs. Also very funny, and totally unique.

Gilad Atzmon- Very, very angry ex-Israeli now living in England. He is an awesome bebop saxophonist/clarinetist, but nowadays plays jazz rooted in Arabic/Jewish/Meditarranean folk music which is incredibly atmospheric and sometimes even quite intimidating.

Jazz Jamaica- An awesome ska band. (Jamaican ska, not lame-o ska punk) Jazz Jamaica Allstars is a 30+ piece band, and everyone there is a virtuoso soloist.

Alas No Axis- I really don't like these guys very much but most people who know them do... They are modern jazz- quite abstract but combined with a lot of vampy post-rock stuff.

Acoustic Ladyland- Getting quite mainstream now: They are like jazz+Rock n roll+some hendrix covers. They can be very, very loud when pushed 8)

Ken Vandermark- Awesome Free Jazz saxophonist.

I wanted to put samples with these, but jazz musicians never give away free mp3s on their websites. Bastards.

Cool, thanks for those suggestions rio. On a side note, I listened to some John Zorn today, but didn't really love it. I like Coltrane a lot more, but I think that's because Zorn seemed more focused on trying to show off skill rather than use it to create a likable atmosphere. I'll need to listen to Zorn again, and come to some conclusions later.

With exceptions, of course.

Anyway, I like Weather Report every once in a blue moon.

No I am not a huge Zorn fan either, really. I think he's quite an important person as an artist: He can take a lot of credit for exploring a lot of the inhospitable "no mans land" between metal and jazz, and inspiring others to do the same, but there are very few of his records that I really enjoy listening to.

There are no exceptions. All the most prominent jazz drummers can outdrum Flo Mounier in a heartbeat.

Jazz drummers sound more technical because your brain can actually keep up with them. Flo and John Longstreth play drums in a way, and with such technicality that, at their speeds, you can't possibly take it all in. Not to say they are MORE technical than anyone else, but how could you possibly know? These drummers you speak of play 2 very different genres, and doing so, must write 2 very different ways to fit the element of their music perfectly. With metal's best you can pick up on certain parts, even have a general idea of how the beats sound as a song of their own in a foggy kind of way... but we are talking about beats that are mere fractions of seconds. Which leads me to my next point. If you heard a beep that lasted exactly 1/4 of a second, once every minute, and you were told you'd get $1,000,000 if you could point in the direction it was coming from, but you only could get one guess (but could take as long as you wanted to guess), you'd never find it (And you'd never guess either!). Because of these two reasons, I believe our brains aren't meant for drums. They are playing at a speed that really relies on an incredible instinct that they have literally programmed in themselves, at inhuman speeds, for testing amounts of time (not to mention all the practice time that leads up to their ascent of Mt. Perfection). And you think you can have a say in who's the better drummer? I don't care who can outplay who, I say we leave that arguement to the population holding the sticks. That is...

Unless you're holding sticks.

Man, speed is nothing. Groove is everything. I don't care if Flo can blast at 300 BPM, it's still not anything as impressive as what Al Foster can do with just a basic drum packet. Let's see Flo switch up like that for a long period of time. I would wager that he would mess up.

In terms of drumming, speed is very easy. You just practice. Jazz drummers learn actual technique.

I still like metal drummers, but jazz drummers are superior.

Wasn't Gar Samuelson jazz-trained?

I don't disagree, but I also don't agree. There's really only one way to find out, and it's a serious long shot.

Excuse me if I think that doesn't make any sense, but it doesn't make any sense. At all.

Please clarify.