Opeth - Ghost Reveries (#2911)

rio · **Posted:** Mon Aug 29, 2005 10:31 pm

Dead Machine wrote:

I've given Opeth plenty of chances to grow on me, having purchased three of their albums, and listening to this one over and over and over, trying to hear what it is that makes this band killer or original.

Nothing does. They mate somewhat technical riffing that sounds like Pink Floyd 'metalled-up' with acoustic sections, and now, keyboards that add clean washes of sound to the riffing or trade that for overdone 'psychadelic' patterns. Why is this original? Merely because no other band sounds EXACTLY like it? Well, Pissing Razors doesn't sound EXACTLY like Pantera, but nobody's calling them original. The growls lack punch or impact, the way Frank Mullens growls or Lord Worms growls do. The clean singing is weak and nasally, with a few exceptions, such as Bleak.

Their lyrics are usually good, though, nice poetry. The drumming is competent. And they have written a couple of killer songs, like Bleak and Moonlapse Vertigo. I just can't see why so many people love them. Please understand, I'm not attacking the band, I want to hear a straight-up answer as to why they're so original and wonderful that doesn't include light and shade dynamics.

Can anyone tell me?

Haha! Well I seem to remeber a couple of months back you and I had that very same discussion, and we were completely unable to reach an agreement, so I shall not bother this time.

Seriously though, I can easily deal with you not wanting to listen to them, but can you actually name me a band that they have ripped off? I say they are original, because nobody else sounds like them, so to prove me wrong surely you must suggest someone that does!?

Stefan · **Posted:** Mon Aug 29, 2005 10:36 pm

rio wrote:

Dead Machine wrote:

I've given Opeth plenty of chances to grow on me, having purchased three of their albums, and listening to this one over and over and over, trying to hear what it is that makes this band killer or original.

Nothing does. They mate somewhat technical riffing that sounds like Pink Floyd 'metalled-up' with acoustic sections, and now, keyboards that add clean washes of sound to the riffing or trade that for overdone 'psychadelic' patterns. Why is this original? Merely because no other band sounds EXACTLY like it? Well, Pissing Razors doesn't sound EXACTLY like Pantera, but nobody's calling them original. The growls lack punch or impact, the way Frank Mullens growls or Lord Worms growls do. The clean singing is weak and nasally, with a few exceptions, such as Bleak.

Their lyrics are usually good, though, nice poetry. The drumming is competent. And they have written a couple of killer songs, like Bleak and Moonlapse Vertigo. I just can't see why so many people love them. Please understand, I'm not attacking the band, I want to hear a straight-up answer as to why they're so original and wonderful that doesn't include light and shade dynamics.

Can anyone tell me?

Haha! Well I seem to remeber a couple of months back you and I had that very same discussion, and we were completely unable to reach an agreement, so I shall not bother this time.

Seriously though, I can easily deal with you not wanting to listen to them, but can you actually name me a band that they have ripped off? I say they are original, because nobody else sounds like them, so to prove me wrong surely you must suggest someone that does!?

on this new album I certainly hear some similarities with Orphaned Land's Mabool which was (in a similar genre) a much better album that this new Opeth is... it's still very good but not as great as you guys (Hi Trevor ! :wink:

) claim it is... well... 75/100 for me :roll:

Adam · **Posted:** Mon Aug 29, 2005 10:36 pm

Dead Machine wrote:

I've given Opeth plenty of chances to grow on me, having purchased three of their albums, and listening to this one over and over and over, trying to hear what it is that makes this band killer or original.

Nothing does. They mate somewhat technical riffing that sounds like Pink Floyd 'metalled-up' with acoustic sections, and now, keyboards that add clean washes of sound to the riffing or trade that for overdone 'psychadelic' patterns. Why is this original? Merely because no other band sounds EXACTLY like it? Well, Pissing Razors doesn't sound EXACTLY like Pantera, but nobody's calling them original. The growls lack punch or impact, the way Frank Mullens growls or Lord Worms growls do. The clean singing is weak and nasally, with a few exceptions, such as Bleak.

Their lyrics are usually good, though, nice poetry. The drumming is competent. And they have written a couple of killer songs, like Bleak and Moonlapse Vertigo. I just can't see why so many people love them. Please understand, I'm not attacking the band, I want to hear a straight-up answer as to why they're so original and wonderful that doesn't include light and shade dynamics.

Can anyone tell me?

You make good points there. I guess to me a band sounds original when I can't quite say they sound like anyone else. When I hear a new Opeth song, it is undeniably Opeth, from the first few notes. Now, if I were to hear...thinking of a shitty mallcore band...a new track by As I Lay Dying, for all I know, its the new song by Bury Your Dead, or somebody like that. I hope that answers it somewhat, its definitely a tough question.

Holy_Terror · **Posted:** Mon Aug 29, 2005 10:37 pm

rio wrote:

Holy_Terror wrote:

Well you shouldnt take offense to it. You'd probably say the same thing to me about CIrith Ungol.

I don't think he's taking offence... I think he's saying that if someone were to argue that the reason you dislike a band is because you lack the mental capacity to comprehend what they're doing, you would strongly beg to differ. I agree with Afeigel on this.

Trust me, I've heard enough metal to have the me(n)tal capacity to listen to a band and formulate an opinion. Me not understanding them....is basically a nice way of me saying I hate this band and everything they do. I cannot fathom what makes them a good band. SImply put, they lack that spart in both muscianship and song writing that would make me like them. Dead Machine brought up a good point...they do kind of sound like Pink Floyd....but if I want something like that I'll listen to Pink Floyd or Yes, because frankly they're much better than Opeth....and they're not boring either.

Dead Machine · **Joined:** Sun Sep 19, 2004 6:24 pm **Posts:** 2527

rio wrote:

Haha! Well I seem to remeber a couple of months back you and I had that very same discussion, and we were completely unable to reach an agreement, so I shall not bother this time.

Seriously though, I can easily deal with you not wanting to listen to them, but can you actually name me a band that they have ripped off? I say they are original, because nobody else sounds like them, so to prove me wrong surely you must suggest someone that does!?

We did? I don't remember that. All right, that works for me.

Sure I can: They ripped off a number of different bands. Pink Floyd supplies most, if not all, of their guitar riffs (Animals and The Wall, mostly), acoustic sections? Pink Floyd again, the vocals are not original, and psychadelic keyboards are not original.

Throwing them all together isn't original either, regardless of what people say. What would be original is if they had actually utilized them in a manner that was actually distinct, which they didn't. It's like their big songs are two or three songs haphazardly tossed together: a boring 6 minute metal song, and a boring 4 minute acoustic song. Obviously, this varies, but the template remains the same.

With the addition of keyboards, they're moving closer and closer to becoming a more metallic, less trippy version of Pink Floyd.

lizardtail · **Posted:** Mon Aug 29, 2005 10:43 pm

It always comes down to the "Please explain why you like this?" question on the divisive bands. I bet we could go through every metal band in the world and come up with the same answer; the spirit of the music draws you in, or it doesn't.. no-one out there knows exactly what they want to hear, and even people with an idea of what to look for can love some bands but hate bands that are very similar to them.

Additionally I'm not in either the "love 'em" or the "hate 'em" camp so it just seems like a silly question.. explain to me in distinct terms why you enjoy listening to an abstract?!?! =P

I will say that I like the vocals in Opeth's work, no matter if they can be construed as nasally or not, because the voice works for prog, and there's far more prog than death in their music.

Adam · **Posted:** Mon Aug 29, 2005 10:45 pm

Quote:

Trust me, I've heard enough metal to have the me(n)tal capacity to listen to a band and formulate an opinion. Me not understanding them....is basically a nice way of me saying I hate this band and everything they do. I cannot fathom what makes them a good band. SImply put, they lack that spart in both muscianship and song writing that would make me like them.

If you hate them, you hate them, why say it in a nice way? I really do understand your argument, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

JeffMH · **Posted:** Mon Aug 29, 2005 10:56 pm

I hate the pink floyd argument brought up on these boards. A few riffs may be similar, but if you put in an Opeth album then a pink floyd album to someone that hasnt heard either...I guarentee you they would say they sound nothing alike.

Adam · **Posted:** Mon Aug 29, 2005 11:06 pm

JeffMH wrote:

I hate the pink floyd argument brought up on these boards. A few riffs may be similar, but if you put in an Opeth album then a pink floyd album to someone that hasnt heard either...I guarentee you they would say they sound nothing alike.

Agreed. Pink Floyd is so transcendent, you could nitpick their influence out of a bunch of metal albums. However, I'm sure a lot of PF fans would scoff at that notion. It seems a band's originality, or lack thereof, is a divisive subject. :twisted:

Dead Machine · **Joined:** Sun Sep 19, 2004 6:24 pm **Posts:** 2527

JeffMH wrote:

I hate the pink floyd argument brought up on these boards. A few riffs may be similar, but if you put in an Opeth album then a pink floyd album to someone that hasnt heard either...I guarentee you they would say they sound nothing alike.

And why is it that someone who has never heard either band is somehow best suited to judge?

Man, if you just listen to Animals, and then listen to Blackwater Park... the albums have undeniable similarity in pretty much all areas.

rio · **Posted:** Mon Aug 29, 2005 11:30 pm

Holy_Terror wrote:

rio wrote:

Holy_Terror wrote:

Well you shouldnt take offense to it. You'd probably say the same thing to me about CIrith Ungol.

I don't think he's taking offence... I think he's saying that if someone were to argue that the reason you dislike a band is because you lack the mental capacity to comprehend what they're doing, you would strongly beg to differ. I agree with Afeigel on this.

Trust me, I've heard enough metal to have the me(n)tal capacity to listen to a band and formulate an opinion. Me not understanding them....is basically a nice way of me saying I hate this band and everything they do. I cannot fathom what makes them a good band. SImply put, they lack that spart in both muscianship and song writing that would make me like them.

Yeah... this is kind of what I meant anyway.

rio · **Posted:** Mon Aug 29, 2005 11:32 pm

T.I.E. wrote:

rio wrote:

Dead Machine wrote:

I've given Opeth plenty of chances to grow on me, having purchased three of their albums, and listening to this one over and over and over, trying to hear what it is that makes this band killer or original.

Nothing does. They mate somewhat technical riffing that sounds like Pink Floyd 'metalled-up' with acoustic sections, and now, keyboards that add clean washes of sound to the riffing or trade that for overdone 'psychadelic' patterns. Why is this original? Merely because no other band sounds EXACTLY like it? Well, Pissing Razors doesn't sound EXACTLY like Pantera, but nobody's calling them original. The growls lack punch or impact, the way Frank Mullens growls or Lord Worms growls do. The clean singing is weak and nasally, with a few exceptions, such as Bleak.

Their lyrics are usually good, though, nice poetry. The drumming is competent. And they have written a couple of killer songs, like Bleak and Moonlapse Vertigo. I just can't see why so many people love them. Please understand, I'm not attacking the band, I want to hear a straight-up answer as to why they're so original and wonderful that doesn't include light and shade dynamics.

Can anyone tell me?

Haha! Well I seem to remeber a couple of months back you and I had that very same discussion, and we were completely unable to reach an agreement, so I shall not bother this time.

Seriously though, I can easily deal with you not wanting to listen to them, but can you actually name me a band that they have ripped off? I say they are original, because nobody else sounds like them, so to prove me wrong surely you must suggest someone that does!?

on this new album I certainly hear some similarities with Orphaned Land's Mabool which was (in a similar genre) a much better album that this new Opeth is... it's still very good but not as great as you guys (Hi Trevor ! :wink:

) claim it is... well... 75/100 for me :roll:

Well like I said I haven't heard the whole thing yet, but I love Mabool a lot, so if there are similarities then that is something that intrigues me. I shall no doubt let you know exactly what score this album gets once I have finally bought it tomorrow.

rio · **Posted:** Mon Aug 29, 2005 11:37 pm

Dead Machine wrote:

JeffMH wrote:

I hate the pink floyd argument brought up on these boards. A few riffs may be similar, but if you put in an Opeth album then a pink floyd album to someone that hasnt heard either...I guarentee you they would say they sound nothing alike.

And why is it that someone who has never heard either band is somehow best suited to judge?

Man, if you just listen to Animals, and then listen to Blackwater Park... the albums have undeniable similarity in pretty much all areas.

You're right we wouldn't ask the layman to judge it, but the fact remains that there is no confusing Pink Floyd and Opeth. There is undoubtedly an influence there, but from your reading your arguments someone who has never listened to Opeth would be forgiven for thinking they are a 70s prog rock band. Opeth are still predominantly a metal band (with the obvious exception), and the majority of their riffs are pure metal, that would never be heard in a PF song.

Dead Machine · **Joined:** Sun Sep 19, 2004 6:24 pm **Posts:** 2527

rio wrote:

You're right we wouldn't ask the layman to judge it, but the fact remains that there is no confusing Pink Floyd and Opeth. There is undoubtedly an influence there, but from your reading your arguments someone who has never listened to Opeth would be forgiven for thinking they are a 70s prog rock band. Opeth are still predominantly a metal band (with the obvious exception), and the majority of their riffs are pure metal, that would never be heard in a PF song.

Obviously they would think of them as a modern band, due to the production, tuning, and growls, but production, tuning, and growls aren't really enough to distinguish Opeth from Pink Floyd.

Admittedly, Opeth hasn't yet reached the level of complexity in composition that Pink Floyd occupied, but they're on their way. It's only a matter of time.

rio · **Posted:** Mon Aug 29, 2005 11:57 pm

Uh huh... But Opeth have lots of double kick drumming, lots of twin lead melodies, and above all lots of pure DM riffs. Where is all this in Pink Floyd?

Dead Machine · **Joined:** Sun Sep 19, 2004 6:24 pm **Posts:** 2527

rio wrote:

Uh huh... But Opeth have lots of double kick drumming, lots of twin lead melodies, and above all lots of pure DM riffs. Where is all this in Pink Floyd?

Nowhere. But Opeth riffs are either:

Pink Floyd riffs tuned differently.
Chugga-chugga riffs, or
Acoustic riffs that sound like Pink Floyd.

Double kick drumming isn't original, and neither are twin lead melodies.

otakon · **Posted:** Tue Aug 30, 2005 12:19 am

mehh Opeth is boring, their style is predictable, though i havent heard this album yet.

If they play any DM riffs at all, it's 3rd rate DM riffs.

blunt · **Posted:** Tue Aug 30, 2005 12:26 am

Dead Machine wrote:

rio wrote:

Uh huh... But Opeth have lots of double kick drumming, lots of twin lead melodies, and above all lots of pure DM riffs. Where is all this in Pink Floyd?

Nowhere. But Opeth riffs are either:

Pink Floyd riffs tuned differently.
Chugga-chugga riffs, or
Acoustic riffs that sound like Pink Floyd.

Double kick drumming isn't original, and neither are twin lead melodies.

This Pink Floyd comparison goes too far. Sure there are some stylistic similarities, but even thats stretching it. Opeth write minor scale riffs using vastly different underlying harmonies and scales.

I don't hear many b5 and b2 intervals in Pink Floyd's music. And if you don't know what they are well.........

And as to put you in the position of defending your holy grail of Pink Floyd I believe they are the most singularly overrated piece of insomnia producing drivel ever heard. I mean boring or what..

Man get a grip. Pink Floyd And Opeth sounding alike-- bollocks!!!!

Dead Machine · **Joined:** Sun Sep 19, 2004 6:24 pm **Posts:** 2527

blunt wrote:

This Pink Floyd comparison goes too far. Sure there are some stylistic similarities, but even thats stretching it. Opeth write minor scale riffs using vastly different underlying harmonies and scales.

I don't hear many b5 and b2 intervals in Pink Floyd's music. And if you don't know what they are well.........

And as to put you in the position of defending your holy grail of Pink Floyd I believe they are the most singularly overrated piece of insomnia producing drivel ever heard. I mean boring or what..

Man get a grip. Pink Floyd And Opeth sounding alike-- bollocks!!!!

I never said that I loved Pink Floyd, you idiot. I enjoy them, they're OKAY, but nothing wondrously mind-blowing. Probably much better on LSD.

And second off, their riffs sound alike. It's a fact. Sorry if you can't appreciate it, but then again, all you ever really do is attack people's opinions with undeserved vitriol.

So fuck off and stop being an ass. All you ever seem to do is jump into discussions and attack random statements.

EDIT- One note, I don't know what b5 and b2 intervals are because I don't play in a band/ play an instrument. If this makes me unfit to judge the qualities or relative similarities between bands, then so be it.

At the very least, I'll agree that I'm not qualified to evaluate it deeply from a technical standpoint. Shallowly, yes. Deeply, no.

Stefan · **Posted:** Tue Aug 30, 2005 12:39 am

I agree they are influenced by Floyd... it's not as obvious as Aaron states it but it's sure is one of their major influences...

what amuses me is they started being PF influenced when they were first produced by Steve Wilson whose Porcupine Tree has always been heavily PF influenced (just try Signify... :roll: ). so I'd say this influence comes from their producer and sure brought a lot more soul to their Progresive DM style...

basically Opeth are PF influenced and it's nothing but GOOD NEWS !

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Opeth - Ghost Reveries (#2911)

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