Wintersun - Time I (#7916)

Karmakosmonaut · **Posted:** Sun Oct 28, 2012 6:22 pm

Chris@MetalReviews wrote:

Adveser wrote:

Chris@MetalReviews wrote:

Milan wrote:

And so it begins...

Yes and no, Jari could only get ALL the tracks to work memory wise since 2011, he had to wait full 64bit support and huge amount of memory to be used in the program so he could work fully on it. I'm inclined to say it might be 2014 but he has the songs already. So late 2013 is stilla possibility.

That's fucking stupid of him too, you can always mix and render to bounce down tracks. In fact this is the way damn near every record is made. I say near every record because some records had so few tracks that there was room to spare using a 16-track machine way back when. All the guy did was admit he did not want to spend the time mixing and documenting what was done to the original tracks in an effort to mix everything at once instead so he could avoid having to mix anything multiple times until he got what he wanted.

Yes he could have done it this way, but it's no way fucking stupid, he wants the control to add / remove tracks, test, see if he likes, put aside... etc. I understand this way of working, I work EXACTLY the same on my Photoshop projects, I keep all layers, I can change details, effects and colors on all my images, they end up taking up to 1Gb of memory at one point (at a time where I could barely afford 4Gb of RAM), so my Photoshop was crawling (you need at least 3 times the amount of memory than the project or Photoshop will start swapping and come to a crawl). Now it's no longer an issue, in 64 bits with 16Gb of RAM, I could either collect my layers or simply go from 400 to 600 dpi images. Nevertheless, I just hate when I have to merge layers to free up memory. I like the option to go back and change the slightest detail, so I understand Jari.

That's a flawed analogy, I think. A better one would be to say that you do a Photoshop project and are halfway through some extensive editing with dozens of layers, and then throw away all the work by deciding to convert to a different format, and have to sell your computer and buy a new one to support said format.

Adveser · **Joined:** Tue Nov 13, 2007 1:26 am **Posts:** 2491

The other issue is that recording programs don't use conventional memory. They use virtual memory and work off of temp files. He could do whatever we wanted, except for the part about loading up 150 tracks and playing them all at once without a crash occuring, which he would need a solid state drive to accomplish, which begs the question, why didn't he do that instead? But yeah, SSDs weren't exactly abundant in storage at the time if they were feasible at all.

Chris@MetalReviews · **Posted:** Mon Oct 29, 2012 1:46 pm

Adveser wrote:

The other issue is that recording programs don't use conventional memory. They use virtual memory and work off of temp files. He could do whatever we wanted, except for the part about loading up 150 tracks and playing them all at once without a crash occuring, which he would need a solid state drive to accomplish, which begs the question, why didn't he do that instead? But yeah, SSDs weren't exactly abundant in storage at the time if they were feasible at all.

I don't think this is completely correct, you still need tons of memory to load the tracks and effects/plugins. So you need both, fast storage & huge amount of memory. I'm sure he uses a SSD in his process though. I would imagine he loaded his Mac with either 32 or 64Gb of RAM, it's just the programs weren't able to use more than 4Gb of that RAM until it was fully 64 bits compatible.

GeneralDiomedes · **Posted:** Mon Oct 29, 2012 2:45 pm

Jari and W.Axl Rose should make an album.

Chris@MetalReviews · **Posted:** Mon Oct 29, 2012 4:10 pm

Karmakosmonaut wrote:

That's a flawed analogy, I think. A better one would be to say that you do a Photoshop project and are halfway through some extensive editing with dozens of layers, and then throw away all the work by deciding to convert to a different format, and have to sell your computer and buy a new one to support said format.

With all due respect it's a great analogy, As it tackles the same problems (memory issues). I've been assembling computer since 20 years, and working on photoshop almost equally. Not to mention that (when I have a job) I'm a system administrator. So I kinda know this stuff (technology, OSes, memory requirement, 64 bits... etc)

, what was proposed by Adveser (to render multiple track into one then use it as one track hence sparing that much memory) is EXACTLY the same as flattening layers on a large photoshop project (the only difference is one project is music, the other is computer graphics). I don't see where this is flawed at all. And I don't like working like this in Photoshop, cause I always want to be able to go back and change the slightest thing with ease, so I understand why Jari did it.

Just my 2 cents

Karmakosmonaut · **Posted:** Tue Oct 30, 2012 9:16 am

Did you read past the first sentence? Didn't Jari throw away months of work in order to convert to 64bit? And didn't that delay the project quite a bit?

Tehom · **Posted:** Tue Oct 30, 2012 9:32 am

I heard that he had a lot more songs written, going into 70 or so. I don't know about all that.

Adveser · **Joined:** Tue Nov 13, 2007 1:26 am **Posts:** 2491

Karmakosmonaut wrote:

Did you read past the first sentence? Didn't Jari throw away months of work in order to convert to 64bit? And didn't that delay the project quite a bit?

That is either not right or Jari actually thought re-recording on a 64-bit system would give him different results. It doesn't. Audio can not go any higher currently than 24-bit right now. 32-bit designs are floating point that eventually end up as 24-bits anyway, in case anyone is wondering why you can technically record something in 32-bits. More than -255db of headroom is impossible in any regard and you will never even get close to making any recording that utilizes that amount of bit depth because of Johnson noise (the heat physically moving air and producing sound waves that leak into the signal....thermal noise)

Karmakosmonaut · **Posted:** Tue Oct 30, 2012 12:26 pm

Adveser wrote:

Karmakosmonaut wrote:

Did you read past the first sentence? Didn't Jari throw away months of work in order to convert to 64bit? And didn't that delay the project quite a bit?

That is either not right or Jari actually thought re-recording on a 64-bit system would give him different results. (...)

From what I can remember of my sideways glances at the entire soap series concerning the Time project, at one point Jari was selling some of his equipment to fund a new computer that was able to handle the 64bit stuff he had switched over to... Feel free to correct me if I misremember.

Aleksie@metalreviews.com · **Joined:** Thu Sep 16, 2004 6:26 am **Posts:** 56

Tehom wrote:

I heard that he had a lot more songs written, going into 70 or so. I don't know about all that.

Correct. Something that Jari also pointed out in the when discussing touring and the future mixing of Time II was that he wrote a helluva lot additional material that just wasn't refined into songs. He was clearly feeling anxious to get on with it with this uncompleted material as well once the aforementioned factors were completed. So I would hope this leads to the follow-up of the whole Time-opus taking much less than over half a decade to complete.

Masshole McDinglenuts · **Joined:** Tue Sep 13, 2011 9:23 am **Posts:** 474

I love how people are talking about this album being overhyped when all the hype was created by fans overhyping the debut—which, by the way, is one of the most overrated melodeath albums ever.

traptunderice · **Posted:** Sat Nov 03, 2012 6:59 am

Masshole McDinglenuts wrote:

I love how people are talking about this album being overhyped when all the hype was created by fans overhyping the debut—which, by the way, is one of the most overrated melodeath albums ever.

Dammit. I have to agree with you.

Wivian · **Joined:** Wed Aug 31, 2011 5:50 pm **Posts:** 613

traptunderice wrote:

Masshole McDinglenuts wrote:

I love how people are talking about this album being overhyped when all the hype was created by fans overhyping the debut—which, by the way, is one of the most overrated melodeath albums ever.

Dammit. I have to agree with you.

It's not melodeath. It is EPIC !

EdgeOfForever · **Posted:** Tue Nov 06, 2012 8:07 am

Can anyone recommend more bands like this? Need something to listen to now that winter is coming.

Wivian · **Joined:** Wed Aug 31, 2011 5:50 pm **Posts:** 613

EdgeOfForever wrote:

Can anyone recommend more bands like this? Need something to listen to now that winter is coming.

Burning Earth - Chronicles of the Calling is somewhat similar to Wintersun s/t. power/EPIC/melodeath stuff.
Or do you mean something with wintery feel to it?

EdgeOfForever · **Posted:** Tue Nov 06, 2012 6:46 pm

Wivian wrote:

EdgeOfForever wrote:

Can anyone recommend more bands like this? Need something to listen to now that winter is coming.

Burning Earth - Chronicles of the Calling is somewhat similar to Wintersun s/t. power/EPIC/melodeath stuff.
Or do you mean something with wintery feel to it?

Doesn't have to be wintery, but it's a plus. Anyway, I'll check out Burning Earth, if I can find it.

Wivian · **Joined:** Wed Aug 31, 2011 5:50 pm **Posts:** 613

EdgeOfForever wrote:

Wivian wrote:

EdgeOfForever wrote:

Can anyone recommend more bands like this? Need something to listen to now that winter is coming.

Burning Earth - Chronicles of the Calling is somewhat similar to Wintersun s/t. power/EPIC/melodeath stuff.
Or do you mean something with wintery feel to it?

Doesn't have to be wintery, but it's a plus. Anyway, I'll check out Burning Earth, if I can find it.

It's downloadable,, the band split and put it online for free if I'm not mistaken. The production is not really a top notch but it's alright.

javimix19 · **Posted:** Mon Dec 24, 2012 10:23 am

This is probably the best album that I heard in years. I haven't had this feeling since the soundtrack of "How To Train Your Dragon" which is another masterpiece.

I listen Time over 20 times in the last 7 days and I can say only that it is a f... masterpiece. I read your review one month ago and then I went to buy the album. Good choice.

Karmakosmonaut · **Posted:** Mon Dec 24, 2012 10:34 am

javimix19 wrote:

I haven't had this feeling since the soundtrack of "How To Train Your Dragon" which is another masterpiece.

Well trolled sir, tip o' the cap to you. :lol:

Wivian · **Joined:** Wed Aug 31, 2011 5:50 pm **Posts:** 613

Karmakosmonaut wrote:

javimix19 wrote:

I haven't had this feeling since the soundtrack of "How To Train Your Dragon" which is another masterpiece.

Well trolled sir, tip o' the cap to you. :lol:

How To Train Your Dragon has got to be EPIC also. Cause of the dragons and shit.

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Wintersun - Time I (#7916)

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