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PostPosted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 8:05 pm 
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Einherjar
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doublewhat wrote:
heatseeker wrote:
Regarding As I Lay Dying, they are not doing anything groundbreaking or incredible yet. However, I do think they are quietly pushing metalcore, thrash and even a bit of death metal into uncharted territory. Listen to a song like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8qJni67mkBw

Classic material? No...but new and interesting? I would say so. I guess appreciating them requires not rejecting the entire genre of metalcore offhand, which some are you inclined to do.

But, As I Lay Dying are not really that important.



Good Solid album. They are starting to mix a bit of everything in their sound.


They may be doing that but their songs are so boring, man. I can't even sit through one anymore. Gimme the Shadows are Security melodic breakdowns again damnit.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 9:30 pm 
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heatseeker wrote:
emperorblackdoom wrote:
stevelovesmoonspell wrote:
All one has to do is listen to the underground instead of namedropping the obvious upper tier acts in a paltry effort to make a case for his obvious lack of knowledge of the current state of metal.


:lol: :lol:

Such diplomacy Steve. Let me say that I was very surprised to see heatseeker of all people diagnosing the state of metal, since I thought he was one of those people that had evolved beyond the genre. I guess no one here can ignore their first love.


Teehee. Yeah, I'm still a metalhead. Especially as of late, even though I didn't listen to very much metal for a while there. I think maybe because of that, it's assumed that I still don't know anything about metal, which isn't true.

But, I'll admit that death metal is more interesting that I had originally assessed. I hadn't heard of Fleshgod Apocalypse, and they sound pretty cool. Akercocke hasn't put out an album in like three years, though. I wouldn't say that they're a bright spot in the DM scene of 2011 because of that. I still don't think that death metal has as much going on for it as those other genres I named, though.


Don't get me wrong Akercocke and Fleshgod are both incredible bands, however, if one is to effectively make a case for such a grandiose statement, one who have to actually listen to a slew of bands and even than the futility of an effort given how widespread the music is would make it a waste. There are plenty of incredible bands in black/death/doom, not every band has to be a Shining or Ulcerate to be proof the underground is brimming with life.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 11:25 pm 
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Einherjar

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If the whole genres of DM and BM ceased to exist, it wouldn't really bother me all that much. I would miss Akercocke and that's about it.

But yeah, If I would have liked the genre more if when I was younger I would like it a hell of a lot more now. It never really was good enough to progress to the amazing heights it has achieved in the last few years. It really is my loss, but people have the same attitude with Power Metal. They don't care because they didn't like it originally, so how can you expect to like the 5th wave of it?

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 1:21 am 
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Einherjar

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The hype of a few years ago has definitely died down. By the hype I'm referring to when Mastodon, Lamb of God etc were new and when the melodic European stuff ala In Flames, Arch Enemy, Opeth, Children of Bodom etc became more acceptable to the US mainstream and when the Thrash come back was made.

Metal seems to be settling in to its underground roots again and focusing on plodding along.

I have to say it's not as exciting as it used to be. Even when Metal was commercially dead in the 1990's there was a lot of underground evolution (e.g. Melodic DM, BM, Power Metal, more Brutal forms of Death Metal).

The genre is more stable and fully developed these days so evolution seems to lie in rehashing ideas - the Thrash revival is an example of this, or belting the Black Metal horse again and again and infusing it with some other stuff (Nachtmystium come to mind).

These days I look for good enjoyable songs and don't really look for evolution or revolution. That time for Metal is over.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 2:24 am 
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Adveser wrote:
If the whole genres of DM and BM ceased to exist, it wouldn't really bother me all that much. I would miss Akercocke and that's about it.

But yeah, If I would have liked the genre more if when I was younger I would like it a hell of a lot more now. It never really was good enough to progress to the amazing heights it has achieved in the last few years. It really is my loss, but people have the same attitude with Power Metal. They don't care because they didn't like it originally, so how can you expect to like the 5th wave of it?


I won't put too much weight into your statement, as you seem to believe Akercocke are the apex of death metal, and while they are one of my favorite death metal bands that statement couldn't be further from the truth. It won't take much effort on your part to stop listening to your obvious predilection of power metal, and check out bands such as Crimson Massacre, Virulent Blessing, Dripping, or Sickening Horror. All being more or less lesser known bands of a technical nature, all shattering you're fractured view of genre you don't understand an or have not fully delved into.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 3:15 am 
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Ist Krieg
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stevelovesmoonspell wrote:
Adveser wrote:
If the whole genres of DM and BM ceased to exist, it wouldn't really bother me all that much. I would miss Akercocke and that's about it.

But yeah, If I would have liked the genre more if when I was younger I would like it a hell of a lot more now. It never really was good enough to progress to the amazing heights it has achieved in the last few years. It really is my loss, but people have the same attitude with Power Metal. They don't care because they didn't like it originally, so how can you expect to like the 5th wave of it?


I won't put too much weight into your statement, as you seem to believe Akercocke are the apex of death metal, and while they are one of my favorite death metal bands that statement couldn't be further from the truth. It won't take much effort on your part to stop listening to your obvious predilection of power metal, and check out bands such as Crimson Massacre, Virulent Blessing, Dripping, or Sickening Horror. All being more or less lesser known bands of a technical nature, all shattering you're fractured view of genre you don't understand an or have not fully delved into.


well, look at his last FM or whatever you call it.

It's like one of us saying "If the whole genres of prog / power /pop ceased to exist, it wouldn't really bother me all that much."

You... Don't... Say...

And this:

Quote:
It never really was good enough to progress to the amazing heights it has achieved in the last few years.


is just puzzling; if "it" (whatever it is) was never really good enough to progress, how did it achieve whatever "amazing heigths" being referenced here?


Anyway, I care only for metal that upholds tradition; not really interested in "the latest thing" or "pushing new boundaries" or any of that other bullshit personally. Give me metal done in the old, true way are go fuck yourself. Notable exceptions being Limbonic Art and Arcturus.
But thats just me.

I agree about the underground (and the past, incidentally) being the place to look for interesting bands. It is a vast (and largely untapped) reservoir of potential, oftentimes with some real gems to be found.
Of course going about it blindly can be a very daunting experience.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 3:44 am 
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Ist Krieg
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heatseeker wrote:
emperorblackdoom wrote:
stevelovesmoonspell wrote:
All one has to do is listen to the underground instead of namedropping the obvious upper tier acts in a paltry effort to make a case for his obvious lack of knowledge of the current state of metal.


:lol: :lol:

Such diplomacy Steve. Let me say that I was very surprised to see heatseeker of all people diagnosing the state of metal, since I thought he was one of those people that had evolved beyond the genre. I guess no one here can ignore their first love.


Teehee. Yeah, I'm still a metalhead. Especially as of late, even though I didn't listen to very much metal for a while there. I think maybe because of that, it's assumed that I still don't know anything about metal, which isn't true.

But, I'll admit that death metal is more interesting that I had originally assessed. I hadn't heard of Fleshgod Apocalypse, and they sound pretty cool. Akercocke hasn't put out an album in like three years, though. I wouldn't say that they're a bright spot in the DM scene of 2011 because of that. I still don't think that death metal has as much going on for it as those other genres I named, though.
One word for you. Portal.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 10:35 am 
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Einherjar
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traptunderice wrote:
heatseeker wrote:
emperorblackdoom wrote:
stevelovesmoonspell wrote:
All one has to do is listen to the underground instead of namedropping the obvious upper tier acts in a paltry effort to make a case for his obvious lack of knowledge of the current state of metal.


:lol: :lol:

Such diplomacy Steve. Let me say that I was very surprised to see heatseeker of all people diagnosing the state of metal, since I thought he was one of those people that had evolved beyond the genre. I guess no one here can ignore their first love.


Teehee. Yeah, I'm still a metalhead. Especially as of late, even though I didn't listen to very much metal for a while there. I think maybe because of that, it's assumed that I still don't know anything about metal, which isn't true.

But, I'll admit that death metal is more interesting that I had originally assessed. I hadn't heard of Fleshgod Apocalypse, and they sound pretty cool. Akercocke hasn't put out an album in like three years, though. I wouldn't say that they're a bright spot in the DM scene of 2011 because of that. I still don't think that death metal has as much going on for it as those other genres I named, though.
One word for you. Portal.


They're an awesome band but they make some unsettling music. They give me the creeps sometimes.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 2:16 pm 
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Ist Krieg

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I'll resist the admitted urge to pile on Adveser; rather, I'll ask him a question: why is Akercocke the exception to the rule for you and black/death metal?

Clean production and technical playing exist in many other black/death metal bands; for example, have you ever heard Emperor's last album, Prometheus?


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 2:54 pm 
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Orion wrote:

quality > originality.


Exactly. It doesn't bother me whether a band is doing something new or changing direction. If they put out the same kind of album over and over again, I would still buy it, provided it's good. What matters to me is how good the songs are. As long as I get to listen to memorable stuff that gets stuck in my head for days, I'm happy.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 5:40 pm 
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The Evil Dead wrote:
doublewhat wrote:
heatseeker wrote:
Regarding As I Lay Dying, they are not doing anything groundbreaking or incredible yet. However, I do think they are quietly pushing metalcore, thrash and even a bit of death metal into uncharted territory. Listen to a song like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8qJni67mkBw

Classic material? No...but new and interesting? I would say so. I guess appreciating them requires not rejecting the entire genre of metalcore offhand, which some are you inclined to do.

But, As I Lay Dying are not really that important.



Good Solid album. They are starting to mix a bit of everything in their sound.


They may be doing that but their songs are so boring, man. I can't even sit through one anymore. Gimme the Shadows are Security melodic breakdowns again damnit.


The problem with the current state of metalcore are the breakdowns! They get overused and make songs boring! They slow a song down too much and for far too long. I prefer breakdowns done in short bursts. Why just do breakdowns the entire time? Give me everything. I want solos, blastbeats, and intricate riffing. Shadows Are Security was good for it's time. Right now it's all about progressing past what's been recycled to death ten thousand times.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 6:07 pm 
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I find post-metal to be the most interesting and original genre. While death, black, and thrash metal has been beaten to death, I think post-metal is where progress is going to come from.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 6:25 pm 
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Ist Krieg
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doublewhat wrote:
I find post-metal to be the most interesting and original genre. While death, black, and thrash metal has been beaten to death, I think post-metal is where progress is going to come from.
Ewww. Wankfests are wankfests no matter how you frame it. Minus intronaut, fuck post-metal.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 7:16 pm 
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traptunderice wrote:
doublewhat wrote:
I find post-metal to be the most interesting and original genre. While death, black, and thrash metal has been beaten to death, I think post-metal is where progress is going to come from.
Ewww. Wankfests are wankfests no matter how you frame it. Minus intronaut, fuck post-metal.


Generally I agree. However, I do not mind the influences on Agalloch or Altar of Plagues...when kept restrained.

I don't understand why so many people assert death metal is spent! From Lost Soul to Ulcerate to Dead Congregation to Defeated Sanity to Fleshgod Apocalypse to (yes) Nile to Immolation to Septic Flesh to a thousand bands in between, death metal is hardly dead. And then we have Morbid Angel returning this year...


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 7:22 pm 
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emperorblackdoom wrote:
traptunderice wrote:
doublewhat wrote:
I find post-metal to be the most interesting and original genre. While death, black, and thrash metal has been beaten to death, I think post-metal is where progress is going to come from.
Ewww. Wankfests are wankfests no matter how you frame it. Minus intronaut, fuck post-metal.


Generally I agree. However, I do not mind the influences on Agalloch or Altar of Plagues...when kept restrained.

I don't understand why so many people assert death metal is spent! From Lost Soul to Ulcerate to Dead Congregation to Defeated Sanity to Fleshgod Apocalypse to (yes) Nile to Immolation to Septic Flesh to a thousand bands in between, death metal is hardly dead. And then we have Morbid Angel returning this year...


If you like Defeated Sanity, I highly recommend the bands of Unique Leader all of them combine brutal death with solid musicianship, you won't be disappointed looking at their roster.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 10:18 pm 
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emperorblackdoom wrote:
traptunderice wrote:
doublewhat wrote:
I find post-metal to be the most interesting and original genre. While death, black, and thrash metal has been beaten to death, I think post-metal is where progress is going to come from.
Ewww. Wankfests are wankfests no matter how you frame it. Minus intronaut, fuck post-metal.


Generally I agree. However, I do not mind the influences on Agalloch or Altar of Plagues...when kept restrained.

I don't understand why so many people assert death metal is spent! From Lost Soul to Ulcerate to Dead Congregation to Defeated Sanity to Fleshgod Apocalypse to (yes) Nile to Immolation to Septic Flesh to a thousand bands in between, death metal is hardly dead. And then we have Morbid Angel returning this year...


It's not that death metal is dead. It is saturated. Yes. Indeed there are a thousand in between. A thousand too many. I am getting a little irritated by modern death metal.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 10:44 pm 
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Einherjar

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traptunderice wrote:
doublewhat wrote:
I find post-metal to be the most interesting and original genre. While death, black, and thrash metal has been beaten to death, I think post-metal is where progress is going to come from.
Ewww. Wankfests are wankfests no matter how you frame it. Minus intronaut, fuck post-metal.


I second this.

Most of this post metal stuff seems to forget what metal's about: riffs, aggression and energy (and more riffs)!


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 10:48 pm 
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stevelovesmoonspell wrote:
If you like Defeated Sanity, I highly recommend the bands of Unique Leader all of them combine brutal death with solid musicianship, you won't be disappointed looking at their roster.


Except they all sound like Deeds of Flesh (or at least they did last time I heard anything from the label - c.2005). :P


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 11:02 pm 
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Breakdowns are okay, as long as they are done well and in the context of a good song.

One thing that really excites me is other genres using metal as an influence, especially indie; metal-influenced indie/indie-influenced metal is a potential genre that is wholly untapped, as far as I know. But here's something from Trophy Scars, courtesy of noodz:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NI4mCtOeFEE

Blues and post-hardcore riffing with the sheer heaviness and harsh vocals of metal. I see a ton of potential here with pretty much every genre, just taking the sound of a particular genre and making it heavier with distortion and big riffs.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 11:03 pm 
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dead1 wrote:
stevelovesmoonspell wrote:
If you like Defeated Sanity, I highly recommend the bands of Unique Leader all of them combine brutal death with solid musicianship, you won't be disappointed looking at their roster.


Except they all sound like Deeds of Flesh (or at least they did last time I heard anything from the label - c.2005). :P


That they do, which means they sound like Suffocation, which means I'll enjoy them which means that if you have good taste you'll like them too.
:P


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