Metal Reviews

That's true. Well, I think the recruiting process needs to start early so we can identity top money makers by the time they are 18. We can give out some "Full Rides" to prostitute school and then sign them to a 5 year contract with a STD exclusion clause. I think a full education is necessary for a good prostitute. I mean, who doesn't want to discuss Voltaire while having sex?

Fridge, we'll make sure to hire some mute girls to, since we know you don't like all that socializing jazz.

I've never come across any studies which focused on violence towards male prostitutes. Nor could I find statistics on it. Maybe you could do better.

Looking back through my research I found this quote which described the possible phenomenological difference between male and female prostitutes, for me at least: "I don’t know if a woman would ever say this, but for a gay man, being a whore isn’t such a big switch. It’s like doing what you’ve always been doing and getting paid for it." This comes from a gay male prostitute who does it on the side of his journalism work. That's not the usual predicament female prostitutes find themselves in from what I've researched.

It's not just pimps that are violent but clients as well. Legalization could improve relations with the latter but once again I've never argued against legalizing it. I think it's dangerous in its current illegal status and despicable in its legalized forms.

It's very rarely studied, perhaps because of homophobia and your ridiculous quote there about how gays are whores anyways so what does it matter.

One google found:

http://www.allacademic.com/meta/p_mla_a ... index.html

Asshat, that's where that quote came from. I'd gladly copy the article to you; I have it saved from when I did my project. It provides no statistics for violence, compares it in no way to female prostitution and focuses more on violence between the male prostitutes on the street and only mentions violence from the customers as a note at the bottom if I remember correctly.

D'oh! Oh well, a study clearly needs to be done.

I thought it was cute.

I think prostitution is immoral and despictable. But it's more immoral and despictable (and dangerous for both sides, and prone to slavery) illegal prostitution than legalized and regulated one.

Right on.

Still don't get why it's immoral

plz tell me

It's the warping of a human being into a tool for pleasure. It's dehumanization and objectification to the extreme of actual use. Viewing women as tits and holes becomes using and purchasing women for tits and holes. We're not talking about Pretty Woman here, guys.

It's cute how everyone that is really advocating legalization never see the violence present in the current illegal variety as reflecting of the values and norms of our society. There is violence towards prostitutes because women can be and are objectified and dehumanized in society not because there are no legal regulations surrounding the business. Pimps are only possible because of this immorality inherent in prostitution. Once legalized, pimps may disappear but the horrible values of our society will manifest themselves in other ways.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XVCtkzIXYzQ

Not trying to be a dick, that is actually merely your opinion. You can't assume that every prostitute, or even most prostitutes, feels dehumanized by what they do, and trying to tell women how they should feel about the way they use their bodies is sexist.

Er, no, no, no and no again. Every society has violence towards women in some form or other throughout history - that there is comparably less violence now than 100 years ago is cause for celebration, not hand-wringing. Some men will always see women as pleasure tools, many don't - some women see men as pleasure tools, many don't. The vast majority of people in civilised society see women as the human beings they are, with a broad range of human emotions related - wank mags, etc and prostitution are an extreme reflection of this, but the majority of users know this and are able to discern between pornography and real life. The few who can't discern are not numerous enough for your argument to hold.

I mean, god, you might as well use a similar argument for how evil violent films are. What this is ultimately about is, like Fridge mentioned earlier in his (lovably) distorted way, that you are trying to put your moral code on others by inventing some arbitrary ideal which everyone has to live up to. Agree with me! you're saying. If not, ye gods, immorality and dehumanisation! The horrors of modern society! I've heard church sermons that are less preachy than Trapt is being here.

My account of objectification isn't about how they feel but about the consumer that comes to them. When a guy comes with a $100, he isn't coming to purchase time with a lovely individual who likes relaxing on the shores and Stephen King but not afraid to delve into the classics. They are buying a mouth which sucks or a hole to fuck and body to gaze at to boot. I could claim some prostitutes probably internalize their behavior, bottle up a lot of their negative feelings and embrace their life to make it easier for them, while unconsciously they desperately want to get out. Looking back at my stats, 92% wanted to escape prostitution immediately. That other 8 can love it all they want.

I'm not even saying they can't do it. Let them do it but it saddens me that it is what they have to do to pay their bills. I quote a gay prostitute earlier. He was sexually aroused by going down on guys. He enjoyed it but he only did it to afford participating in his personal artistic endeavors. I wish he could have made more money at his 9 to 5 journalist job to afford it without the need to prostitute himself. And I assume that after his initial enjoyment of it he would probably like to not have to do it but he could and let him.

http://www.libertarian.co.uk/lapubs/lapam/lapam019.pdf

This.

Discern between pornography and real life? If you're fully embracing pornography and viewing it how do you not think that will affect the relations you have with other women. There is no disconnect.

I couldn't look her straight in the face
A foolish picture I live in disgust
Degradation being eaten by lust

Why should we celebrate what modern society has reached? People are still exploited and abused. It's better but hell we could've stopped in the 1400s with that attitude, the Renaissance being better than the Dark Ages. Dare I say patriarchy and fluster you're Third Way feathers?

As for the violence, the violence underpinning our society is directly reflected in the movies. Zizek makes this point in reference to The Dark Knight which I just mentioned in the Now Reading thread. The conclusion resolving itself in a lie to maintain society reflects the lies we have to tell ourselves to keep society functioning. The violence in films reflect the violence which underpins the luxuries we have.

We don't live in a perfect world. I criticize it; I don't proselytize.

You honestly thought that would appeal to my Marxist sensibilities? She describes workers as a service. By definition, in capitalism, I see workers as being purchased as a commodity, which she directly rejects. She mentions nothing about the horrors of prostitution besides "it's not that bad", "it's exaggerated" and "what does exist is usually exploited by politicians and filmmakers". The latter should be responded to by "duh" and the formers are rebuked by statistics. She was an escort, no? This latter bit would argue for legalized agencies but the former criticism of my "morality" is supported by feminist frameworks and Marxist theory.

62% reported having been raped in prostitution.
73% reported having experienced physical assault in prostitution.
83% of prostitutes are victims of assault with a weapon.

Why can't you celebrate progress? And please don't use the bloody Dark Knight as some reflection of modern society, because we could throw various movies around all day as examples of that and it's ridiculous. And sorry, but criticism of morals = sermonisation. It's the job of religion, and in a free society religion should be separated from the state.

And did I offer that link as an argument, or a summary of my views? The latter, of course. Feel free to spit nails at this, but it seems that you Marxists are obsessed with slavery, yet your answer is to enslave the whole of society, rather than being obsessed with freedom and setting all free.

I'm sure not all consumers are like that. If I were to go to a prostitute, I would be paying for a social service that would allow me to engage in certain activities with another human being for my entertainment and her profit. Just because sex is involved shouldn't change the dynamic- I'm not buying a mouth or a pussy, I'm paying a girl to spend time with me and to engage in an activity that both our bodies are naturally inclined to do and enjoy.

Redudancy is redundant. Free? Like the freedoms of modern society? Free to hock your cooch for formula. Cool. Mind you that you don't want to free the pedophiles from the constraints put on their natural inclinations. I'll celebrate progress but by no means should I stop myself from challenging the injustices still present today. That is a loathsome position when you'd rather mystify reality as a realm of bountiful progress while ignoring the inequity and mistreatment inherent and required for our current situation. Your conception of morality as equal to religion is bogus. I can easily have ethics without god, have it influence my political decisions without encroaching on political freedom. How you can divorce values from any deliberation is a cute trick but just wrong. Every stance has inherent ethical value in it.

@Frig: You're right. I'm speaking in generalities so of course there are going to be exceptions. I feel like strip clubs may even represent more of what I'm thinking, not that I take what I said originally back. Men go in to the establishment simply to gaze while participating in male bonding and there really is no way of connecting emotionally to the strippers.