Metal Reviews

I don't see how Dimmu aren't black metal. Do they need to crawl back into a rat infested basement below a record store and get recording to regain that status, or something?

You don't listen to much Black metal, do you?
See, this is what happens when you start spending time in dance clubs; no offense, but Dimmy is about as much of a black metal band as Cradle of Filth is. They are the opposite of Black metal.
Poseurs and infidels.
It's like calling Blink 182 hardcore.
I could explain it to you, (and I could, too) but I'd prefer not to waste my time, or your's for that matter.

Holy shit man, I haven't seen you post in a while. How was Korn and Dimmu Borgir?

Blink 182 may not be hardcore, but they're certainly a (shitty) form of punk, and I don't see why you can't call Dimmu a (shitty, natch) form of Black Metal. Although they're way better than Blink 182.

Punk is more a state of mind than a music. B182 sure don't have it.

They're pop-punk, a descendant of punk. It's inescapable.

I don't care what genre most people tell they are. They're as punk as Barry Manilow as far as I'm concerned.

Who cares what they are they are still a shit band all the way through.

Hmm, I see Dimmu as a sort of 'blackened' metal. Enthrone Darkness Triumphant wasn't so bad, I'd say. Basically a more mainstream and less brilliant Emperor, no?

+1. Nothing amazing but they do what they do quite well.

No, not at all. I mean my last.fm artist charts aren't loaded with black metal artists or anything. Nor do I have a playlist that has over 2500 black metal songs that I have here on my computer.

And I definitely never comment on just about every black metal review on this site after listening to the album... Didn't name off bands like Aosoth, Celestia, and Pensees Nocturnes for my favorites in regards to the thread about albums of the year, either. So yeah... I don't listen to much of it.

Alright. I see you favor the French, fair enough.
So how is Dimmy black metal, then?
I certainly hope that they themselves have the good sense to not refer to themselves as such.
I would label them plain old symphonic metal with quasi-Satanic leanings.
Chugging major key bar chord riffs; upbeat and happy and bright; ultra high gloss production; fruity pompous synths; overdone clean vox (yes, Vortex is overrated); MTV friendly image; very marketable; and last but definitely not least, they are rock stars TOURING WITH FUCKING KORN!
Honestly, even a band like Hecate Enthroned smacks of black metal more than Dimmy; even in their Devils Path days, they were pretty pseudo.
Now, someone mentioned they do what they and they do it well... this is true, and some of their material is pretty tasty.
But it ain't black metal.

First I thought it would be an US tour, because in the US they have always strange combinations with Black Metal lands like Immortal supporting Manowar... but for an european tour it is definitely very strange.

If they would tour with Kreator or Desaster or Sodom or Destruction or whatever but freaking KoRN???????

BUT, I would say that DB are still a little bit black metal. Especially the last album was again more than the predecessor. And the last COF was also again more BM than their album before.

Yes yes I know... but I've heard in the last years bands like Watain, Satyricon, Abigor, Troll, Gorgoroth, Triptykon, Dark Fortress... and the differences aren't so big at all. The production is better, but the songwriting is not so different. It's atmospheric, satanic and everything what BM needs.

Triptykon=bm? You fail.

The style of music they play is symphonic black metal? I don't really know what to say beyond that. Obviously your mind is set that they aren't black metal so I'm not going to really argue with you about it. We'll agree to disagree.

In the broadest sense. At least they are satanic, dark, heavy and atmospheric.

I'd say everything after Enthroned Darkness Triumphant was more of a symphonic blackened heavy metal or something. The focus seemed to leave the atmosphere and move to the riffs.

That is fine, and I also appreciate some later Dimmu (as I do with Cradle too), but black metal is such a weighty term. Most of us black metal types are discriminating genre nazis to the core.

Heck I'm listening to Cobalt right now and I quite like it, but there is nothing black metal about the aesthetic.

And I can't call Triptykon black metal either, more of a doom metal.

In sorte diaboli had about 10 minutes of worthwhile music on it. The rest was complete boredom.

So what exactly constitutes the genre then? I'm not going to go through the usual poetic rhetorical definition, as I'm sure you, COTB, and I all agree Dimmu Borgir are a polished commercial piece of shit and not 'black metal'. Yet for aims in this discussion to conceive of a broader and readily approachable definition, with bands like Alcest, Deathspell Omega, Cobalt exploring different musical territories, what exactly constitutes the exit from the black metal arena?

Dimmu borgir is not black metal.