Metal Reviews

hah, a matter of etiquette.

Obviously you can't legislate things like that, but, still tongue-dueling in public is a gauchery and should be treated as such.
And that goes for both the hetero or homo variety; but I'm not gonna lie.
The sight of two men kissing is pretty gross, especially if they're hairy bastards.

Etiquette, indeed. And yeah, big fat men kissing is pretty yucksville, but so would be a big fat man and his big fat wife. Now, if we were speaking of the hot young lesbians that you only see in certain magazines, there would be far fewer complaints, heh.

"Of course, you might say there's no such thing as vampires, or lesbians. But what's that lurking in the cupboard or hiding beneath the bed?"

hehe, whatever happened to Steve Coogan's Dr Terrible's House of Horrible

Lesbians (attractive ones, mind you and not Butch and Spike flip-flopping all over the place in a pool of sweat, cologne and Brylcreem) are different; that's done for our edification.
Just as it should be.

Wasn't that always a bit shit?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sBbJO2ZEXr0

Nice quote, though.

Nergal has studied for seven years at university; I'm sure he's a pretty intelligent guy. I wasn't saying he'd represent himself but he would be called to the seat to answer questions about the incident.

As for saying this isn't taking a stand, in a country where the strong Christian right has tried to make Jesus the king of poland, are constantly proposing to outlaw abortion or challenge gay rights and yet they can do this all according to a murderous doctrine? To say Nergal's act wasn't political is whitewashing it.

The right complains about this pussy footing around offending minorities yet once Nergal does it, v, is all throw him in jail and lose the key.

I'd imagine that living in a country like Poland where Christianity is popular/powerful enough to have laws like the no hurting Catholic feelings one, would make rebelling against Christianity is a more pressing issue than teenage angst kinda stuff.

hehe, wrong.
I said if you break the law be prepared to pay the consequences.
And incidentally, the hate crime laws being stated the AG himself as being only for a certain group of protected citizens is actually illegal. 14th amendment?

I can guarantee you that if somebody was going around and burning crosses, you'd be all for jail time. "But, that's hate", you say? Well, Behemoth doesn't exactly sing about love and unity themselves, now do they?
No, it just rankles your spleen because it's the "Christian right".
That's really what it boils down to.

If say, a NSBM band that was overtly anti-jew and blatantly demonstrated this on stage played in Germany, and they were charged with a crime, what would you think about that?
Or are just selective about which laws shouild be followed?


at a grown man with 7 years of education acting like a buffoon in public, though.
Ripping a bible... that' s the best this brilliant mind can come up with? My hope for humanity continues to dwindle.

I think everybody should be selective about what laws they follow, tbh. Lots of laws are stupid and have done far more harm than good.

Also, I don't think anybody here has said NSBM acts should be banned from performing anything. The supposed hysteria about "hate speech" is another right wing strawman, I'm tempted to say.

Please...
rebellion in such a childlike manner as ripping a bible is pathetic and weak.
That's something I'd expect from some pussy little teenager.
Such an educated and articulate fellow as this "Nergal", surely, he is bright enough to know that the way to change things is politically, not by acting like a mental case trapped in the throes of adolesence.
Yep, growling FUUUUCK CHRIST!!!" DEATH TO CHRISTIANS BLAAAARRGGGH BELCH etc" while wearing clown make up and mugging and capering all over the place like an idiot, and , oh dear! ripping up bibles.... that'll work.
Give me a break.

Really?
Tell that to Ernst Zundel. Or David Duke.
Seems more like left-wing tyranny, to me.

So who gets to select which laws they obey or not?
What's the point of even having any laws if they are selectively followed?

Well, I was refering initially to you being able to "guarantee" that trapt (and presumably by association other left-wingers here) would want to see NSBM acts get jail time... which is presumptuous, to say the least (and certainly speaking for myself, not true).

But yes, really. Holy moly, I could probably fill a telephone directory with examples of right wing media in any given country claiming against all truth and sanity that some traditional practice or another has been "banned" or labelled "racist" when in fact no such banning or labelling was ever even close to hapopening. So yep, right wing strawman.

Well clearly anyone with the capability of sentient thought has a choice of wether to obey laws or not. Now, if you're asking which instances of law-breaking I would support, that would depend entirely on the context. Nergal breaking the law by ripping up a bible? Pantomime, sure, but worthy of imprisonment? Surely not. So in that case, yeah, I'd support Nergal.

Laws should be the expression of consensus within a society about what should and should not be tolerated by that society. They aren't though; they are the product of centuries of fighting by different interest groups. I'm pretty sure there are still laws against blasphemy on the statute books in England. They are an obsolete expression of the power of the church in society, which has now been decisively rejected by British society. On the other hand, there are other laws such as laws against murder, that are universally accepted as valid. Those laws have a point. The first type don't. The law Nergal infringed is one of the former.

Just to pick up on this point, it's not only left-wingers who are against fascism, you know. Most moderate right-wingers are as well, especially in European countries like Germany which Have A Past, and there's just as good a chance it was down to them that Zundel and Duke were arrested - Antifa don't speak for the more liberal-leaning lefties like myself, who value free speech over violence and intolerance of offensive opinions.



If he was vandalising property or advocating violence or making a public nuisance, I'd want a fine at least. Heck, if Nergal went out into the middle of a public street and started ripping up a Bible, and he was then cautioned for dropping litter or some other minor civil infraction, fair play. But two years of prison time for ripping up a book is the issue, and I can say without any doubt whatsoever that I'd be against a cross-burner getting two years imprisonment.

I have no doubt that the right wing is against fascism, as well.
Although, I wouldn't equate freedom of thought and specch as fascism, in fact the OPPRESSION of those things is what is fascist... oh, the irony.
I was pointing out that saying that it is all nothing but right-wing straw man tactics is seeing only half the picture. The whole left / right paradigm is a joke, anyway.

Well, obviously if an act such as vandalism or trespassing on private property were committed, which is illegal, they should be prosecuted.
So we are in agreement regarding the cross-burning; as long as it's not violating any other laws, eg., trespassing, vandalism, etc.
BUT, if it WERE illegal to burn a cross, then I'd be the first to say the exact same thing I am saying about this case.
Two years for tearing a book is ludicrous, yes, but it's still the law.
If they want to change the laws, the should at least try it in an intelligent adult-like manner; all they (Nergal and Co.) are doing
is pissing off the authorities (which I suspect is their intention), and no matter what anybody thinks about how things OUGHT to be, that 99% of the time turns out bad for the one pissing the authorities off.

They may be obsolete and may have been rejected by British society, but apparently they are not and have not been by Polish society.
So, there you have "a law should be the expression of consensus within a society about what should and should not be tolerated by that society".
I'd wager that the likes of Nergal are a small minority within Poland.

What's the problem?
You're basing how Polish law should function on how it functions in another country.
Who are you to refute what the Poles have deemed lawful and unlawful?

You're acting like his act is childish but if his status fucking a pop star and being in one of the biggest Polish metal bands ever can get this law's ridiculous nature publicity is that not a political act?

And no burning a cross shouldn't get anyone imprisoned; burning it in someone's front yard is where the problem comes in.

Cos I'm a universalist and think that certain principles should be valid everywhere. The use of religion to reduce the individual's freedom is a problem IMO whether it is in place in Saudi Arabia or Poland. The other way is the relativist road which ultimately says that if in a muslim country (for example) the majority of people support stoning women for adultry (certainly not saying they do- this is a hypothetical) then people looking in from the outside have no right to condemn that.

Yes, I think that the prospect of legal action against Nergal reflects poorly on Poland. And I also think that if enough people look at a story like this and go "that's ridiculous, WTF, Poland?" then that will have a beneficial effect in the long run.

The other thing I would like to add is that I don't think it's true at all that people on the outside of a country have no business involving themselves in the affairs of that country. An example: the last couple of months I have been meeting and doing interviews with British trade unionists. Some of them had been campaigning quite hard to get this guy released from jail in Iran

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mansour_Osanlou

And according to the ITF, there has been some level of success to these international campaigns

http://www.itfglobal.org/news-online/in ... etail/4218

The reason they do this is because they have a universal idea of what constitutes right and wrong, regardless of national context, and they see what is wrong as their business wherever it is happening. Honestly, that is an attitude I really admire.

The type of publicity he may or may not be generating will do nothing but set things back, that's assuming that political change is his intent, which I strongly doubt.
Can you imagine any other group trying to get a change made in existing laws acting like that and being taken even the slightest bit seriously?
Seriously, his childish antics are doing more harm than good.
Something like 89% of Poles are Roman Catholic, so good luck; offending almost 90% of the poulation should go over well.

Since when are pop-stars anything other than bubble-headed egomaniacs that think because they managed to recycle the proven-hit-record formula ad nauseum, they are somehow special, anyway?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suffragette

?



It's the in-thing these days, haha.