Metal Reviews

Exactly. Just because I posted the link doesn't mean I have to agree with it.
The whole site is a really cool summary of possible end-word scenarios, though, and with a good sense of humor to boot.
http://www.exitmundi.nl/exitmundi.htm

Oh I know that but I think Adveser is subscribing to it, no?

Well yeah, I just wanted to get an idea if his opinion of time constantly repeating itself has anything to do with that article, or if it's something more spiritual.

Umm, given infinity years and the fact that it has happened once already makes it certainty.

It has nothing to do with spirituality or religion. I am virtually alone in my religion that I think death may not be the end of existence. Either way, the perceivable difference is the same. Either you die and don't come back at all, or everything will repeat itself and it always has, either way things will appear the same.

I can almost guarantee you that chemistry was founded under the principle that because a element was theoretically and mathmatically possible, it was assumed to exist. Then we started actually finding the stuff. Human beings are a lot like that but far more complex.

Is that the only tenet of your religion, because I could have sworn I've heard that elsewhere...

There is no mandate to subscribe to anything of the sort. The main idea is not to live through abstinence all your life like there will be an afterlife. If there ever was an official position (and there is not) it is that once you die, life ends, and I agree with that, but I don't see why it can't happen again.

There is actually quite a big divide of people that think we should try to live forever and those that want to die naturally. I couldn't believe it myself really that people don't wanna live forever.

Something happening once doesn't provide us any sort of access to whether it'll happen again. Only through repeated trials can something be considered probable, not even certain. Certainty is not existent in this world and just because you say something is doesn't make it so.

Dude, Infinite time...finite parts. I respect that you understand the fallacy of what we are dealing with here, but that fallacy assumes less than an infinite timeframe.

Why an infnite timeframe as a law...Matter can not be created nor destroyed, is a fact.

You're seriously making a jump you can't make due to the limits of our understanding. You're basically saying given enough time, infinite to be exact, monkeys will eventually type out Hamlet verbatim. There is nothing that we should logically respect in that conclusion and if we're still just basing this all on physics I don't think we should throw logic out yet.

You're seriously making a jump you can't make due to the limits of our understanding. You're basically saying given enough time, infinite to be exact, monkeys will eventually type out Hamlet verbatim. There is nothing that we should logically respect in that conclusion and if we're still just basing this all on physics I don't think we should throw logic out yet.

The monkeys have all the keys on a typewriter to the exponent of how many letters and spaces are in hamlet. That is a huge number of chances so during infinite they could literally type out all those different possibilities and never type out Hamlet they could sit there and type 'yhafjafldja;lhdgfajdpouaiotuewtkj,cvnxpgaihadfa;fahfaoeiruioehthetohawetiohoawiehtowhgtoihgriuotyoiqyutiowuqe[pjdsklhfhhyrtgrfeweipouashjfdiosahtioheoihtwoihasegtoiahgoeiahtoiutioewut", that exact chain everyday for the rest of infinite. There is no certainty that they will type out Hamlet.

Yes, eventually they will, because they have eternity. If i have a coin and want to get a heads, i have a 1/2 chance of that happening, now in theory i could very well keep getting tails forever, but that isn't very likely. Go back to the gumball thing. if there is a 1/1 000 000 chance of that happening, the one millionth chance is gonna get it sooner or later. The odds of winning the lottery sucks, but someone wins, almost every week.

If the monkeys have a 1/10(to the millionth power) chance their time is gonna come too.

I mean yeah, I think our fundamental disagreement is that the coin flip could never land on heads, or it could. I think it just might one day.

edited because writing out the millionth power made the thread unreadable.

People don't really win the lottery each week. It's all actors and propaganda, a right old conspiracy.

This isn't about time or odds though. It's about necessity. Monkeys could theoretically type out Hamlet given enough time but it isn't a necessary occurence. They could sit there and type a certain phrase forever and never go beyond that if they'd like. The Lottery has some form of necessity since someone is going to pull a number. There's no causal event that will say bam that monkey is going to type Shakespeare.

yes, but surely, eventually it will be necessary.

For the record, I am enjoying this thread, let me know if you are not.

I don't think humans coming to being is something that can be meaningfully measured probabilistically because the number of elements that have to fall into place for it to work is probably pretty close to infinite. Also as far as we know it's only happened once so you can't really establish any kind of probability based on that.

Infinite time =/= necessity. So I can conceive of flying lizard monkeys ripping out of my stomach and flying off but does that mean it will necessarily happen if given enough time? There is no necessary connection between time and lizards flying out of my ass, right? You honestly don't think the universe will eventually create a world where monkeys rip out of assholes. Hopefully getting away from things we can possibly conceive of right now will push the necessity aspect.

I feel like some kinda comparison between logically possible worlds is apt here. Things can be logically possible yet never happen. What you're saying doesn't create a logical contradiction, negating its existence, but just because it is logically possible doesn't mean it will necessarily happen.

Addy'll just say given infinite, near infinite will happen. Several times over because it's infinite.

The nudez knows what I'm talking about!

I don't know, once is good enough for me to assume it is possible.