Seinfeld26 wrote:
cry of the banshee wrote:
Seinfeld26 wrote:
A lot of monks do that same kind of thing, because they believe too much "fun" leads to increased wickedness. In other words, they believe a certain degree of suffering brings one closer to God.
What kind of sane god would reward suffering and punish pleasure? As long as said pleasure isn't hurting anyone intentionally, of course.
Well, the basic idea behind what they do is that "too much 'pleasure' will eventually make one selfish and/or overly materialistic." So I think they perform these acts of masochism to avoid falling into the trap of hedonism. It's not even really a religious ritual. It's just something they personally choose to do.
The "Salvation" paragraph in Rio's UU'ism post is interesting, because it hints at an important part of the religion's background: Before UU'ism, the Unitarians and Universalists were separate congregations. The Universalists were a Christian branch who believed in God, Christ's divinity, the Apostle's Creed, etc. But with one significant difference: They believed EVERYBODY would eventually be saved at death, regardless of who they were (in other words, they believed every human being in existence would eventually reach Heaven). So, to this day, most (or at least many) UU's share that common thread of belief.
That's not really what I was asking; at any rate it was a rhetorical question.
Most anything done in excess will lead to unwelcome consequences. Excessive sloth will result in failure to get things done, excessive gluttony leads to health issues, etc... but the Seven Deadly Sins, in and of themselves, lead to personal gratification. Pleasure. So, why is pleasure a sin is my question. If the pleasure is overdone, the person pays the price by way of consequences already; why the need for "salvation"?
I am not talking about pleasure at the expense of others, but merely enjoying life to it's fullest potential, seeking sexual gratification, financial success, wealth even, eating the best foods, and naturally becoming wrathful when wronged, or being envious of another's success (this can be a great motivator, i.e., I see my neihgbor's new car, admire it, and work harder for the means to aquire one myself) and exhibiting pride in oneself. The price of excess in any of these things are usually paid for here on Earth, for instance, lack of true friendship, loneliness, indigestion and ultimately obesity, etc., so why should payment of these vices be due upon death, as well? Hedonism may lead to decadence and so on, but that is an entirely different matter; I don't see what kind of reasonable deity would punish it's subjects in whatever afterlife there may or may not be for seeking pleasure. As I stated, the excesses of these so-called vices are self punishing as it is.
It's this rejection of earthly gratification by the church that leads many to label it a death cult; a focus on rejecting the here and now and all that it has to offer in favor of some vaguely promised reward in death. A form of Nihilism, basically.
Ya know what I think?
I think religion is a tool to keep the poor, the downtrodden and the abused in line and accepting that their being screwed by the ones in power is just fine, because by living in poverty (while their rulers live in the extravagance of kings, of course) is being "closer to god", and will be rewarded for in the afterlife.
Take away religion, and all of a sudden you have a lot of pissed off people with nothing really to lose that will throw those that have their heel planted upon their necks to the lions. It's a smoke and mirrors trick to divert the hard reality of life to a very likely false hope of a better afterlife, thereby allowing the cycle of subjection by those in power to continue unchecked. Nice, neat, no fuss, no muss.
That's why humility, charity, hard work, charity and the rest (in other words: self sacrifice) are espoused as virtues, while anything that leads people to look at their lot and collectively say "Enough!"
and "I want some fortune, too!" as vices or sins.
Of course, as always, that's merely my take on the state of affairs.
