Metal Reviews

Indeed. Even in the Metalcore / Deathcore scenes, which I normally loathe, there are a few real gems.

Why isn't Emperor Black Metal, Holy T?

Well, on the later albums, particularly Athems to the Welken and Prometheus, they went beyond the whole primitive black metal sound that Darkthrone perfected. The Darkthrone stuff was so stripped down, raw, evil and primitive. The middle period emperor stuff went far far beyond that, to the point that I wouldnt consider it black metal. (I don't believe in the genre symphonic black metal)

And Symphonic Black Metal doesn't believe in you.

Fair enough.

ITNE is Black Metal... anything after is a hybrid of sorts.

My point more or less.

Agreed. Symphonic Black Metal, though considered by many to be a legitimate genre, is IMO, somewhat an oxymoron.
Not that ITNE sounds anything like Darkthrone; rather, despite the presence of keyboards, it is still pretty raw and stripped down. Especially when contrasted against Emperor's follow-up output.

Symphonic black metal is not a real genre. Black metal, in the only two forms that I have ever recognized it in, are:

1.) The "old" version of black metal, i.e. bands in the 80's that had satanic subject matter. Venom and Mercyful Fate being the first two.

2.) The early 90's wave of anti-death metal, anti-Christianity metal that came out of Norway. It was characterized by harsh cold sounds and primitive rawness. It was a statement against the Florida death metal scene that had become so stagnant and uber technical that these Norwegian dudes did the exact opposite.

Symphonic black metal, neo-folk-black metal, and all of the other bastardized versions are not black metal though they claim to be.

Now I don't really like black metal, but all of my buddies do, one of them (the drummer in Sauron) is a Darkthrone fanatic. So he's the authority in my world on black metal. And I am inclined to trust in his authority on this matter. I've heard his reasons, and I find validity in them. SO there.

Is that what you really look like?

After reading one of your posts? Yes.

One thing I've never understood about this mentality is like, if those genres aren't black metal, then what should be called? Even if they're sonically different from Darkthrone or Venom, they've still got more similarities to black metal than any other type of metal so calling them symphonic black metal describes the music pretty well.

It's the combination of Black Metal and the word symphonic that ruins it for me. I can't get behind the whole idea. It seems wrong to me in every way.

I suppose symphonic extreme metal would be a better generic term for it, that way its not leeching credibility off of a genre that it musically bears little similarity to....in overall character.

By that I mean, Symphonic black metal has way too much going on in it. There's more melody and more technicality in it then in true black metal. Hence, there really isnt any similarity other than the vocals....but then again the vocals are slmilar to black thrash and some death meal bands. So is the music really that similar?

And as for you, I can't really find any redeeming qualities in any of your posts. So far all you've done is tell people their stupid and that their bands suck.

So a picture of someone reading one of your posts would contain the face of a man who has lost all faith in humanity.

Just plain old Symphonic Metal? I don't know.
Whatever you would call it, it's not Black Metal.
Just like Green Day isn't punk.
To clarify a bit, just because keyboards are utilized doesn't necessarilly mean it is "symphonic". Burzum uses key's; Xasthur does, I Shalt Become, Graveland and a slew of others do as well, but they are in no way "symphonic".

That is a good point.

You nailed it down as well; Black Metal is a minimalist artform. Bands like Dimmy, Cradle, later Emperor, Hecate Enthroned, etc. are too layered, too bright-major key-sounding and too slickly produced. Actually, Hecate Enthroned's Requiems... is a fairly decent album, for what it is, but I digress.
Donning corpse-paint and surrounding yourself with Satanic trappings does not a Black Metal band make.

Well I kind of agree.

Part of the reason it's so easy to accuse BM of never evolving is because we have such a conservative conception of what BM actually is. As soon as new elements get involved then people start calling it something else and saying it's no longer BM...

Which is fine, but it also means we end up with a load of crazy sub genres when it seems more to me like the continuous development of a train of thought.