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PostPosted: Sat Sep 26, 2009 4:02 am 
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Ist Krieg
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The moon is calling him... to rock.

WHAT DOES SCIENCE HAVE TO SAY ABOUT THAT HUH


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 26, 2009 2:53 pm 
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cry of the banshee wrote:
I agree with Seinfeld.
Science has "faith" in numerous "theorys", so what is the difference?
Can science prove evolution beyond theory?
Can science explain what life is and where does it go when it ends?
Isn't it an axiom of physics that all physical energy does not simply disappear, it simply transmutates, e.g., water into steam, etc?
Can Science explain just exactly what time is, in words?
Can science measure the universe? The distance between galaxies? It can "theorize", buts thats about it.
What about the various theorys regarding electricity?
We take it on good faith that electrical current is the flow of electrons that occurs when a difference in potential is acheived across a physical body. And that in digital logic, 1 and 1 = 1, while 0 and 1 = 0, 1 and 0 = 0, 0 and 0= 0, etc.
You can't see these things, yet they exist.
Sounds an awful lot like faith, to me.


I have no need for religion, personally, but if some derive something positive from it, what the fuck's the problem?
Everbody has their own life experience to learn from, what works for you may not work for me, etc.

As for this:

Quote:
All you need is sheeple with faith and a figure who claims divine authority to get arma-motherfucking-geddon.


I call bullshit.
Religion, like science, is a human invention.
The problem is not religion any more than it is science; the problem is the nature of Man.
Without science, there would be no hydrogen bombs, chemical weapons, or biological weapons. So tell me again what will ultimately be the thing that wipes us out (barring some form of natural disaster, of course)?"


Science does test its theories, in a more stringent way than religion does. Not to discount religion at all, but there is far more of a difference than you're making out - science may have created the atomic bomb, religion makes it ok to use it on people.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 26, 2009 2:56 pm 
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Ist Krieg
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Religion does not rely on rationalism and empiricism to establish its claims. Science does. Religion claims moral authority. Science does not.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 26, 2009 5:06 pm 
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Goat wrote:
cry of the banshee wrote:
I agree with Seinfeld.
Science has "faith" in numerous "theorys", so what is the difference?
Can science prove evolution beyond theory?
Can science explain what life is and where does it go when it ends?
Isn't it an axiom of physics that all physical energy does not simply disappear, it simply transmutates, e.g., water into steam, etc?
Can Science explain just exactly what time is, in words?
Can science measure the universe? The distance between galaxies? It can "theorize", buts thats about it.
What about the various theorys regarding electricity?
We take it on good faith that electrical current is the flow of electrons that occurs when a difference in potential is acheived across a physical body. And that in digital logic, 1 and 1 = 1, while 0 and 1 = 0, 1 and 0 = 0, 0 and 0= 0, etc.
You can't see these things, yet they exist.
Sounds an awful lot like faith, to me.


I have no need for religion, personally, but if some derive something positive from it, what the fuck's the problem?
Everbody has their own life experience to learn from, what works for you may not work for me, etc.

As for this:

Quote:
All you need is sheeple with faith and a figure who claims divine authority to get arma-motherfucking-geddon.


I call bullshit.
Religion, like science, is a human invention.
The problem is not religion any more than it is science; the problem is the nature of Man.
Without science, there would be no hydrogen bombs, chemical weapons, or biological weapons. So tell me again what will ultimately be the thing that wipes us out (barring some form of natural disaster, of course)?"


Science does test its theories, in a more stringent way than religion does. Not to discount religion at all, but there is far more of a difference than you're making out - science may have created the atomic bomb, religion makes it ok to use it on people.


That's why Truman dropped two of them, then?

First: just because a potential nutjob could use religion as an excuse to use The Bomb, is not the fault of religion.
Take a pile of money; it can be used to feed the hungry, or it can be used to hire someone to murder somebody else. It's not the moneys fault that it is being used for nefarious ends, now is it?
Second: if religion did not exists, man would just find another reason to go to war. It's part of our collective nature.

Regarding science:
Yes, but at heart they are still theorys. The tests that are used are still human inventions, very clever ones, but still... and there are plenty of things science cannot explain at all.
Haha, I'm not even remotely religious, but this whole "religion is wrong, science is right" argument is stupid.
Anybody that says they KNOW that a creator of some sort does NOT exist is so full of shit, they squeak going into a turn.
That's a bold fucking statement, and I would expect it to be backed up with some kind of proof.
And that whole "you can't prove a negative" bit is a collossal cop-out; perhaps, you can, perhaps you can't, but you CAN disprove a positive.

And if that is not possible, saying that "God does not exist" is just as much a leap of faith as saying he does.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 26, 2009 5:10 pm 
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FrigidSymphony wrote:
Religion does not rely on rationalism and empiricism to establish its claims. Science does. Religion claims moral authority. Science does not.


So?
What do you care?
Let people draw their own conclusions about the world around them and the world beyond them.
Sounds to me that atheists claim just as much "moral authority" as the believers ... just as smug, arrogant and sure that they have all the answers as any bible-thumper handing out tracts.
And just as annoying.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 26, 2009 5:15 pm 
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cry of the banshee wrote:
The problem is not religion any more than it is science; the problem is the nature of Man.


Very true.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 26, 2009 5:37 pm 
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If you look at history, Galileo etc, then religion being wrong and science being right is a pretty noticeable trend :cool:


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 26, 2009 5:47 pm 
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noodles wrote:
If you look at history, Galileo etc, then religion being wrong and science being right is a pretty noticeable trend :cool:


How so? Just because science has made some pretty impressive strides through the ages, does not mean that god does not exist.
Some theologians posit that the very spark of intelligence which allows for such things is "proof" of a divine being.
I neither agree or disagree with that idea, but it is food for thought.


Until someone can supply proof that there is no creator, atheists are relying just as much on faith as the believers.
Truth is, nobody knows, one way or the other.
How can any thinking person not see this?


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 26, 2009 5:59 pm 
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You're all a bunch of sheeple.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 26, 2009 6:03 pm 
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cry of the banshee wrote:
noodles wrote:
If you look at history, Galileo etc, then religion being wrong and science being right is a pretty noticeable trend :cool:


How so? Just because science has made some pretty impressive strides through the ages, does not mean that god does not exist.
Some theologians posit that the very spark of intelligence which allows for such things is "proof" of a divine being.
I neither agree or disagree with that idea, but it is food for thought.


Until someone can supply proof that there is no creator, atheists are relying just as much on faith as the believers.
Truth is, nobody knows, one way or the other.
How can any thinking person not see this?


Atheists do not have the burden of proof. Furthermore, the idea of God is conveniently malleable to ad hoc exceptions and other such lovely fallacies that the falsification becomes quite impossible. Theologians have had to adapt their concept of god continually increasing the vagueness of his characteristics to the increasingly critical analysis' of philosophers.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 26, 2009 6:28 pm 
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Image


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 26, 2009 6:53 pm 
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FrigidSymphony wrote:
cry of the banshee wrote:
noodles wrote:
If you look at history, Galileo etc, then religion being wrong and science being right is a pretty noticeable trend :cool:


How so? Just because science has made some pretty impressive strides through the ages, does not mean that god does not exist.
Some theologians posit that the very spark of intelligence which allows for such things is "proof" of a divine being.
I neither agree or disagree with that idea, but it is food for thought.


Until someone can supply proof that there is no creator, atheists are relying just as much on faith as the believers.
Truth is, nobody knows, one way or the other.
How can any thinking person not see this?


Atheists do not have the burden of proof. Furthermore, the idea of God is conveniently malleable to ad hoc exceptions and other such lovely fallacies that the falsification becomes quite impossible. Theologians have had to adapt their concept of god continually increasing the vagueness of his characteristics to the increasingly critical analysis' of philosophers.


To be technical here, Atheism is defined (dictionary.com) as "the doctrine or belief that there is no God."...And as they say (I think), "The burden of proof lies on the believer," and atheists do indeed "believe" that there is no God, so it's just as much up to you to prove there is no God as it is for the religious to prove that there is one.

Me, I just don't care. I have no way of knowing what will happen after I die besides the fact that my physical body will rot away, so I don't concern myself with such things much at all.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 26, 2009 6:57 pm 
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Dictionary dot com is shit and almost every atheist would argue vehemently against that definition. Aheism is a doctrine and a belief the same way baldness is a hair color.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 26, 2009 7:06 pm 
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FrigidSymphony wrote:
cry of the banshee wrote:
noodles wrote:
If you look at history, Galileo etc, then religion being wrong and science being right is a pretty noticeable trend :cool:


How so? Just because science has made some pretty impressive strides through the ages, does not mean that god does not exist.
Some theologians posit that the very spark of intelligence which allows for such things is "proof" of a divine being.
I neither agree or disagree with that idea, but it is food for thought.


Until someone can supply proof that there is no creator, atheists are relying just as much on faith as the believers.
Truth is, nobody knows, one way or the other.
How can any thinking person not see this?


Atheists do not have the burden of proof.


Cop-out of the century, and BS, to boot.
You are going on faith, nothing more.
Rank hypocrisy, is what it is.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 26, 2009 7:08 pm 
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FrigidSymphony wrote:
Dictionary dot com is shit and almost every atheist would argue vehemently against that definition. Aheism is a doctrine and a belief the same way baldness is a hair color.


hahaha... I really can't take you even a little bit seriously...
the dictionary is wrong, now?
talk about twisting things to fit your own agenda.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 26, 2009 7:13 pm 
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Fuckin' sheeple.

I mean, I don't believe in fairies. Do I have to prove that they don't exist or should I just be cool with someone else believing in them? Or maybe someone believes they can shoot lightning out of their ass. Who am I to disagree?


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 26, 2009 7:31 pm 
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cry of the banshee wrote:
FrigidSymphony wrote:
Dictionary dot com is shit and almost every atheist would argue vehemently against that definition. Aheism is a doctrine and a belief the same way baldness is a hair color.


hahaha... I really can't take you even a little bit seriously...
the dictionary is wrong, now?
talk about twisting things to fit your own agenda.


Dictionary dot com is a shit dictionary.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 26, 2009 8:44 pm 
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Eternal Idol wrote:
White Metal shit like Never Walk Alone.
Oh god. Those lyrics finally clicked with me. Fuck that shit.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 26, 2009 8:47 pm 
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cry of the banshee wrote:
noodles wrote:
If you look at history, Galileo etc, then religion being wrong and science being right is a pretty noticeable trend :cool:


How so? Just because science has made some pretty impressive strides through the ages, does not mean that god does not exist.
Science has proven religion wrong a few times hence for pragmatic reasons science kicks religion's ass. 6000 years much?


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 26, 2009 10:38 pm 
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noodles wrote:
If you look at history, Galileo etc, then religion being wrong and science being right is a pretty noticeable trend :cool:


Two things:

1. Galileo was himself a practicing Catholic. So, personally, I'm not sure I'd be too quick to use his situation against Christianity. I know that isn't what you were doing, but it is an important point.

2. What Galileo disproved is the idea that the Earth was the center of the universe. He faced a lot of opposition from the Church, but Christian doctrine itself never claimed such a thing. So it wasn't really so much a matter of science beating religion as it was a matter of science beating over-zealous priests. Evolution is the one scientific theory that really goes against certain aspects of Christian doctrine. And the only one it goes against is Seven Day Creation (IMO probably the most minor and insignificant story in the entire Bible - and yet, strangely, the one that seems to cause the most strife).


Last edited by Seinfeld26 on Sat Sep 26, 2009 10:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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