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PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 12:43 pm 
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I know why many like Youthanasia, but it is not what I am expecting from Megadeth. It's like Load from Metallica. It's like a different Band. The same with Cryptic Writings (whereas it's more Megadeth like Youthanasia) and RISK. That's just not what I'm expectiong from a Band which made Thrash Classics like RIP or PS. It's like Slayer trying to play like Def Leppard. Maybe it would sound good, but it's like betraying the fans.

TWNAH was a first step, but the production was bad and most of the songs boring.

TSHAF was a great step to old greatness, whereas there were too many pop melodies.

UA was IMO the best album since Countdown to Extinction. The Thrash was to 90% back (except for A tout le monde) and many songs kicked as. But it was lacking the furious speed and wild arrangements of the 80s albums.

Now, Head Crusher goes back to that wild style which was hinted by Kick the Chair and Sleepwalker BUT as Track 9 (or so) it's a surprise, because Dave Mustaine had put the fastest tracks on the last albums always on the opening spot, but with this track at the end of the middle part, the hope is big, that the rest of the album would be in the same style. And if they can manage to make every song that fast and heavy, then Megadeth is really back.

And if someone does not like it, because it's too heavy or too 80s - he has not got it. :P


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 2:35 pm 
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TheMetalWarrior316 wrote:
I know why many like Youthanasia, but it is not what I am expecting from Megadeth. It's like Load from Metallica. It's like a different Band. The same with Cryptic Writings (whereas it's more Megadeth like Youthanasia) and RISK. That's just not what I'm expectiong from a Band which made Thrash Classics like RIP or PS. It's like Slayer trying to play like Def Leppard. Maybe it would sound good, but it's like betraying the fans.


I've always hated seeing the phrase "betraying the fans" used in music. I can understand feeling betrayed if Megadeth somehow decided to become a Boy Band, but I don't see how going in a slightly more mainstream direction (which, by the way, Megadeth really did on Countdown To Extinction - which, regardless of what some may say, is NOT a thrash album) is necessarily "betraying the fans." That has to be one of the most abused phrases in all of metal music IMO.

I'll admit that Risk was a decidedly bad album. But Cryptic Writings and Youthanasia were awesome IMO.

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TWNAH was a first step, but the production was bad and most of the songs boring.


For me, the thing with TWNAH is that it was a very blatant "getting-back-on-track album." It's like Megadeth sat in a big room and said, "Okay, since Risk flopped, we really need to get back to playing Heavy Metal. But, since it's been a good few years since we made a metal record, we need some time to settle back in to the scene." Which is basically what the band was doing with TWNAH. Not that this is necessarily they're fault. But, when listening to the album, it's pretty obvious that the band needed some time to settle back into playing metal music after the techno-influenced pop/rock of Risk.

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TSHAF was a great step to old greatness, whereas there were too many pop melodies.


TSHF was easily Megadeth's best album since Youthanasia IMO. A "new classic" in every sense of the word.

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UA was IMO the best album since Countdown to Extinction. The Thrash was to 90% back (except for A tout le monde) and many songs kicked as. But it was lacking the furious speed and wild arrangements of the 80s albums.


Chock it up to Mustaine's age. Anyway, I thought UA was repetitive and boring, for the most part. Although it may grow on me if I listen to it more.

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Now, Head Crusher goes back to that wild style which was hinted by Kick the Chair and Sleepwalker BUT as Track 9 (or so) it's a surprise, because Dave Mustaine had put the fastest tracks on the last albums always on the opening spot, but with this track at the end of the middle part, the hope is big, that the rest of the album would be in the same style. And if they can manage to make every song that fast and heavy, then Megadeth is really back.

And if someone does not like it, because it's too heavy or too 80s - he has not got it. :P


Agreed.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 7:36 pm 
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Seinfeld26 wrote:

I've always hated seeing the phrase "betraying the fans" used in music. I can understand feeling betrayed if Megadeth somehow decided to become a Boy Band, but I don't see how going in a slightly more mainstream direction (which, by the way, Megadeth really did on Countdown To Extinction - which, regardless of what some may say, is NOT a thrash album) is necessarily "betraying the fans." That has to be one of the most abused phrases in all of metal music IMO.


It's like betraying the fans, because, you first build a fanbase with great music and when you then change your sound as drastically as Megadeth or Metallica, many old fans will be lost and pissed off, because usually you are fan of a band, because they play a certain style.

And Countdown was not so far away from Thrash as Youthanasia or Risk was. They just tried the same like Metallica. It's like a mirror. Dave wanted to be as famous as Lars and James and so he changed the style like Metallica did.

Seinfeld26 wrote:
I'll admit that Risk was a decidedly bad album. But Cryptic Writings and Youthanasia were awesome IMO.


Cryptic Writings was IMO better than Youthanasia, because it was much fresher, faster and not so boring. Youthanasia had some great songs, but as a whole it was too much the same melodic slow stuff. Risk is a special thing, because it had some great songs and some not so great, but as a Hard Rock Fan I liked Risk - even a little more than Youthanasia which was just too generic radio friendly.

Seinfeld26 wrote:
For me, the thing with TWNAH is that it was a very blatant "getting-back-on-track album." It's like Megadeth sat in a big room and said, "Okay, since Risk flopped, we really need to get back to playing Heavy Metal. But, since it's been a good few years since we made a metal record, we need some time to settle back in to the scene." Which is basically what the band was doing with TWNAH. Not that this is necessarily they're fault. But, when listening to the album, it's pretty obvious that the band needed some time to settle back into playing metal music after the techno-influenced pop/rock of Risk.


But why was TWNAH so slow? Why was the production so bad? Risk had a crystal clear sound and TWNAH sounded like it was recorded through a thick curtain?

Seinfeld26 wrote:
TSHF was easily Megadeth's best album since Youthanasia IMO. A "new classic" in every sense of the word.


I think UA is better. TSHF has just too much Risk in it.

Seinfeld26 wrote:
Chock it up to Mustaine's age. Anyway, I thought UA was repetitive and boring, for the most part. Although it may grow on me if I listen to it more.


If you put the boring ones aside, you'll get many great varied songs:
Sleepwalker, Washington is Next, Never Walk Alone, Gears of War, Play for Blood, Amerikhastan


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 9:41 pm 
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TheMetalWarrior316 wrote:
Seinfeld26 wrote:

I've always hated seeing the phrase "betraying the fans" used in music. I can understand feeling betrayed if Megadeth somehow decided to become a Boy Band, but I don't see how going in a slightly more mainstream direction (which, by the way, Megadeth really did on Countdown To Extinction - which, regardless of what some may say, is NOT a thrash album) is necessarily "betraying the fans." That has to be one of the most abused phrases in all of metal music IMO.


It's like betraying the fans, because, you first build a fanbase with great music and when you then change your sound as drastically as Megadeth or Metallica, many old fans will be lost and pissed off, because usually you are fan of a band, because they play a certain style.


I can't understand this attitude at all.... music should be about trying new things and excitement. All bands that repeat the same formula over and over again, I get sick of, no matter how much I loved them in the first place. Even Opeth, who were always my favourite band of all time, I'm getting a bit sick of because they aren't mixing it up enough.

Music is art, not commerce. You might say a successful band would be staying faithful to its fans by sticking to a much loved formula. I might say they are "selling out", because they are dumping their interest in creating new music in favour of easy returns album after album.

I do want to hear Megadeth make a badass thrash album, but I don't want them to make something that "sounds like Rust in Peace", or whatever.

That said, change is obviously not good by definition. I don't especially like Youthanasia because it sounds dumbed-down to me. Sure, it's change, but they were moving in a more predictable direction, leading to less interesting music.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2009 2:10 am 
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TheMetalWarrior316 wrote:
And Countdown was not so far away from Thrash as Youthanasia or Risk was. They just tried the same like Metallica. It's like a mirror. Dave wanted to be as famous as Lars and James and so he changed the style like Metallica did.


It's an interesting contrast, really. Countdown was faster and had a more biting guitar sound than Youthanasia. While Youthanasia was darker and had a heavier guitar sound than Countdown. But I never really found Youthanasia to be much more mainstream-sounding than Countdown, truthfully. Even with A Tout Le Monde, since Countdown had Foreclosure Of A Dream (which, contrary to what many think, was really Megadeth's first ballad - not ATLM).

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Cryptic Writings was IMO better than Youthanasia, because it was much fresher, faster and not so boring. Youthanasia had some great songs, but as a whole it was too much the same melodic slow stuff. Risk is a special thing, because it had some great songs and some not so great, but as a Hard Rock Fan I liked Risk - even a little more than Youthanasia which was just too generic radio friendly.


Giving credit where credit is due, I'd say Cryptic Writings, even to this day, has the best production of any Megadeth album. But I wouldn't call it a better album than Youthanasia. The songs aren't as memorable or heavy IMO. And I felt the band was trying a little too hard to offer "something for everybody" with it (evidenced by how forced and out of place songs like The Disintegrators and FFF sounded). Youthanasia, on the other hand, was more consistent IMO. That's not to say CW isn't nonetheless a great album. It's just what you'd call a "flawed masterpiece" (try not to take the word "masterpiece" too literally in this context, please?).

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If you put the boring ones aside, you'll get many great varied songs:
Sleepwalker, Washington is Next, Never Walk Alone, Gears of War, Play for Blood, Amerikhastan


I decided to give UA another listen just this afternoon. And I must admit, it's definitely a better album than I gave it credit for. In fact, it's probably Mustaine's thrashiest album since Rust In Peace (although, personally, I still like TSHF better). I'd give it probably about an 85/100.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2009 2:48 pm 
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Seinfeld26 wrote:
It's an interesting contrast, really. Countdown was faster and had a more biting guitar sound than Youthanasia. While Youthanasia was darker and had a heavier guitar sound than Countdown. But I never really found Youthanasia to be much more mainstream-sounding than Countdown, truthfully. Even with A Tout Le Monde, since Countdown had Foreclosure Of A Dream (which, contrary to what many think, was really Megadeth's first ballad - not ATLM).

??? Youthanasia is full of melodic songs which are so melodic, it made me cringe sometimes. Especially the chorus of most of the songs is so melodic, Bon Jovi would be proud. ;) Countdown is not so melodic as a whole (yes there are some very melodic parts, but also many thrashy moments), while Youthanasia is more polished and nearly all edges are gone. Ok, the riffs are sounding heavy, but when the chorus is coming (Family Tree, I Thought I knew it all, Train of Consequences etc.), it's as melodic as it can get. And every song (except the last) as the same tempo and this is what makes this album sometimes really boring (compared to other Deth albums, because it's still better than Load and Reload e.g.. I mean I am complaining on a high level).

Seinfeld26 wrote:
Giving credit where credit is due, I'd say Cryptic Writings, even to this day, has the best production of any Megadeth album. But I wouldn't call it a better album than Youthanasia. The songs aren't as memorable or heavy IMO. And I felt the band was trying a little too hard to offer "something for everybody" with it (evidenced by how forced and out of place songs like The Disintegrators and FFF sounded). Youthanasia, on the other hand, was more consistent IMO. That's not to say CW isn't nonetheless a great album. It's just what you'd call a "flawed masterpiece" (try not to take the word "masterpiece" too literally in this context, please?).


CW is IMO, compared to Youthanasia, not so polished and has, despite of the radio friendly songs like Trust or Almost Honest or I'l Get Even, more edges and really fast thrash songs like the Disintegrators or FFF. It makes more fun to listen to it. Youthanasia is IMO too thick produced. Whereas the new remastered version of CW (and Countdown) is worse than the original, because it seems that Dave wanted that every album should sound like TWNAH...:blink:

Seinfeld26 wrote:
I decided to give UA another listen just this afternoon. And I must admit, it's definitely a better album than I gave it credit for. In fact, it's probably Mustaine's thrashiest album since Rust In Peace (although, personally, I still like TSHF better). I'd give it probably about an 85/100.


That's what I'm saying all the Time! :)


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2009 4:41 pm 
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TheMetalWarrior316 wrote:
Youthanasia is full of melodic songs


That is exactly why I love that album so much. I like melodic and catchy stuff. :wink:


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2009 6:06 pm 
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TheMetalWarrior316 wrote:
??? Youthanasia is full of melodic songs which are so melodic, it made me cringe sometimes. Especially the chorus of most of the songs is so melodic, Bon Jovi would be proud. ;) Countdown is not so melodic as a whole (yes there are some very melodic parts, but also many thrashy moments), while Youthanasia is more polished and nearly all edges are gone. Ok, the riffs are sounding heavy, but when the chorus is coming (Family Tree, I Thought I knew it all, Train of Consequences etc.), it's as melodic as it can get. And every song (except the last) as the same tempo and this is what makes this album sometimes really boring (compared to other Deth albums, because it's still better than Load and Reload e.g.. I mean I am complaining on a high level).


Both Youth and Countdown, however, are very hook-heavy and "catchy." True, Youth is more melodic (as if that's necessarily a bad thing). But you can't tell me Countdown doesn't have an obvious catch-factor and poppy sound in places (just listen to Symphony Of Destruction). In fact, the only two songs on the album that MIGHT be considered "thrash" are probably Skin O' My Teeth and Architecture Of Aggression. And even those sounded fairly restrained compared to songs like Hangar 18 and Good Mourning Black Friday. The rest is basically thrash-inspired heavy/speed/pop/prog metal (yeah, a weird combination, I know).

And I don't think the songs on Youth all had the same tempo. The Killing Road was certainly faster than Addicted To Chaos. IIRC, what Mustaine said was that he didn't like the way the tempos were distributed throughout the album (for example, he felt some songs should've been slower, some should've been faster, etc.). For example, the live version of Reckoning Day is usually played at a faster tempo than the studio version.

It's also interesting that all the songs on Youthanasia used Eb tuning. but then Mustaine reverted back to standard tuning for the remainder of his discography. I have a theory (but don't take it as fact) that Mustaine was going to use Eb tuning for the remainder of his albums but, after seeing Metallica begin using it around the same time, he decided to revert back to standard tuning so as to not sound too much like his former band.

Quote:
CW is IMO, compared to Youthanasia, not so polished and has, despite of the radio friendly songs like Trust or Almost Honest or I'l Get Even, more edges and really fast thrash songs like the Disintegrators or FFF. It makes more fun to listen to it. Youthanasia is IMO too thick produced. Whereas the new remastered version of CW (and Countdown) is worse than the original, because it seems that Dave wanted that every album should sound like TWNAH...:blink:


I actually felt those "thrashier" songs were where Cryptic Writings faltered, since they sounded so out of place on the album. It was like Dave just threw them in for the sake of responding to criticisms about him losing his thrash sensibilities. Granted, I like She-Wolf and Vortex. But I'm not going to deny that the latter song, in particular, didn't really fit with the overall tone of the album (at least for me).


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