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Who will/would you pick?
Obama 74%  74%  [ 29 ]
Hilary 13%  13%  [ 5 ]
McCain 13%  13%  [ 5 ]
Total votes : 39
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 24, 2008 2:49 am 
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Oh, the Pope. John Paul II spent a lifetime trying to make Catholicism more open to everyone (or more ecumenical at least) and Benedict is doing the exact opposite.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 11:26 am 
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(moved from Post Count +1)

traptunderice wrote:
Goat wrote:
Fuck Israel. I hope they get rocketed to shit after what they did today in Gaza. Fine, Hamas shouldn't support the kassem launchings, but a few kassems is no cause for this kind of butchery. The cycle goes on... I can totally see Bibi getting elected now, ffs.
Express my American outrage at your blasphemy towards Israel. :rolleyes:

I feel bad for saying that I hate Israel. Stupid indoctrinating culture.


Well, of course, Hamas is nothing if not a stupid indoctrinating culture, and organised religion sux (sorry, Seinfeld, but it does). But attacking what is basically schoolchildren and policemen in broad daylight, pretending that this will stop fanatical Islamists, all when there's an election around the corner that is a toss-up between the moderate right and the extreme right... Netanyahu or Mofaz getting into power will probably mean war with Iran, and I can't see Livni gaining power, even as hawkish as she is.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 11:29 pm 
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I was calling America the indoctrinating culture where any form of antizionism is seen simply as antisemitism therefore you must love Israel. I remember people getting physically upset when Obama was being questioned about his loyalty to Israel. His supporters fought vehemently that he loved Israel and others said he would just bend over to terrorists.

Yeah, blanketing a city with bombs is a really bad way to hurt a single group. :rolleyes: I'm not well versed in Israeli politics but war with Iran is a serious possibility? A lot of people throw that around but for serious that could happen?


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 11:36 pm 
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traptunderice wrote:
I was calling America the indoctrinating culture where any form of antizionism is seen simply as antisemitism therefore you must love Israel. I remember people getting physically upset when Obama was being questioned about his loyalty to Israel. His supporters fought vehemently that he loved Israel and others said he would just bend over to terrorists.

Yeah, blanketing a city with bombs is a really bad way to hurt a single group. :rolleyes: I'm not well versed in Israeli politics but war with Iran is a serious possibility? A lot of people throw that around but for serious that could happen?


Ah, right, yes - not just true of America, alas. And considering how up-to-date Israel's army is, it'd be a great solution for the US to let Israel take Iran down. Prominent politicians in Israel (that Shaul Mofaz twat especially) are as fond of anti-Iranian rhetoric as Iran is of anti-Israel stuff. Hopefully it'll never happen, as you say, but if Netanyahu wins the forthcoming election it's a possibility, and since Livni's inheriting a party seen as weak, corrupt and useless... it's pretty much seen as a terrorist state by the right-wing Jewspapers we get.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 11:43 pm 
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I was taught that anti-Israel stuff in Iran was simply rhetoric and never serious. So Israel I guess is talking a wee bit more serious than Ahamadinejad(sp?). The bombings seem to be more of a flex of muscle to force another cease-fire.

Yeah so the Taliban are surrounding Kabul. :mad:


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 29, 2008 11:51 am 
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http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/de ... e-reaction

Quote:
A crowd of anti-Israel protesters in Mosul, Iraq, became the target of a suicide bomber.


I have every sympathy for the Palestinian innocents getting killed, but what on earth do people think they're doing? That is more or less the very definition of killing your own!


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 3:38 pm 
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Happened upon a Pro-Palestinian rally in Leeds at the weekend and stayed for a bit. Pretty tiny compared to the one in London but hey-ho. What is the score now? 500 to 2 or something? Yeah go Israel :wacko: :sad:

Obama's position on the thing, as inferred by Richard Seymour (http://leninology.blogspot.com/). Seymour is arguing that Obama being quiet about it reflects changes in US popular opinion, realigning towards the Palestinian case.

Quote:
Obama's silence on Gaza might strike some as cowardly. To others it must seem an improvement on him opening his mouth and saying something disgustingly obsequious about Israel's right to 'defend' itself. In fact, he has relied on his advisors and spokespeople drip-feeding his pro-Israeli sentiments to the media, so it is obvious that he is basically sympathetic to Israel's attack. However, a small mystery remains. Obama has spoken out on a number of issues, including the economy and the bail-out, so his sudden pretence that he is cleaving to the 'one president at a time' rule (the one that he just invented as a rationalisation for remaining schtum) is an unconvincing one. It is true that the Democratic base are nowhere near as rabidly pro-Israel as the leadership. But this has never stopped Democratic leaders from ventilating noisily on Israel's behalf.

But this is different. Obama was the first US president in living memory to win on an antiwar vote, and to win he had to mobilise constituencies way to the left of himself. People will put up with a lot of bullshit to keep the right out. However. As disgusting as most of his economy and foreign policy picks have been, to come out as a full-throated cheerleader for this slaughter, right when there are dozens of sizeable protests taking place across America against this outrage, would probably be an insult too far. One powerful anecdotal example is the questions and contributions left by members of the public on the president-elect's Change.gov website, under foreign policy. By an overwhelming margin, the most popular topic is Palestine, and almost every comment is pro-Palestinian. The polling evidence is also instructive. On 31 December, a Rasmussen poll found Americans 'closely divided' over the Gaza attacks, but noted that while 62% of Republicans supported the attacks, only 31% of Democrats did. Maybe Obama figures he'll wait until he's actually been inaugurated before he decides to burn that many bridges.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 11:51 pm 
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So Obama is silent about it in order to not piss off the constituencies and not actually because he disagrees with Israel? Interesting, a little cynical.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 1:03 am 
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Yeah, I think that's wishful thinking. Obama's quiet about it so he doesn't annoy the pro-Israel brigade, surely. Is he actually going to change American policy that's pretty much set in stone by this point because of a few comments left on a website? SURE HE IS.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 11:44 am 
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No, Monkey with beer, he's saying that Obama does support Israel but the reason he isn't being vocal about it, like he has about other things, is because he was explicitly elected on a doveish mandate. No websites involved at all...

EDIT: oh wait, yes a little bit about websites...


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 12:10 pm 
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rio wrote:
No, Monkey with beer, he's saying that Obama does support Israel but the reason he isn't being vocal about it, like he has about other things, is because he was explicitly elected on a doveish mandate. No websites involved at all...

EDIT: oh wait, yes a little bit about websites...


HA! Monkey yourself. Look at his picks, Emanuel and Clinton ffs. Why would anyone with a secret affinity for the Palestinians pick such pro-Israelis? Being elected on a 'doveish' mandate doesn't mean actually having a doveish mandate.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 1:36 pm 
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Yes, that's pretty much EXACTLY what the link says... He is keeping quiet because revealing himself to be emphatically pro-Israel would upset the voters........ that's like, exactly the point :unsure: Whoever said or even implied that he had a secret affinity for the Palestinians?


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 1:59 pm 
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rio wrote:
Yes, that's pretty much EXACTLY what the link says... He is keeping quiet because revealing himself to be emphatically pro-Israel would upset the voters........ that's like, exactly the point :unsure: Whoever said or even implied that he had a secret affinity for the Palestinians?


No-one. I'm agreeing?


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 2:05 pm 
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Then why did you call me a monkey :sad:


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 3:04 pm 
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rio wrote:
Then why did you call me a monkey :sad:


The whole website thing.

u started it zombieboy


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 3:05 pm 
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I KILL YOU


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 11:21 am 
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Pretty long but a very good article on Israel-Palestine

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/ja ... -palestine

Trying to put the whole "oh Israel's the only democracy in the Middle East" thing into perspective.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 12:14 pm 
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great article. well worth reading.

_________________
noodles wrote:
live to crush


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 8:54 pm 
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The Cleggster joins the fray:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree ... l-gaza-war

He's the leader of the Liberal Democrats in the UK, for the unBritish amongst us, the hopeless underdog of British politics. I wish they would just put Vince Cable in charge and stop being so damned polite about the government. We need a strong third voice at the moment, now that the choice is Brown or that twat Cameron.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 11:57 am 
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Well done Nick Clegg for forsaking the twattish fencesitting anonymity that is the trademark of your party and actually saying something about what is going on. Still not going to vote Lib Dem though...


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