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 Post subject: 'Rush - 2112 (#4177)'
PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 8:02 pm 
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Rush - 2112
Progressive Hard Rock
Quoted: CLASSIC


Click here to see the review.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 8:23 pm 
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Nice review. I prefer Hemispheres, but there are some great moments here. I do have to admit that the band's (Peart in particular, as he's the lyricsist) fandom of Ayn Rand does occasionally make them hard to listen to, even though they don't generally use her ideas in their lyrics. Yet I listen to Burzum with a clear conscience...


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 2:41 am 
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Excellent review Zadok, not much to say about this album other that is indeed a CLASSIC.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 6:23 am 
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Einherjar

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Released in 1976 2112 managed to save Rush commercially after the concept pieces on previous album Caress Of Steel failed to catch the public’s imagination. The band’s label wanted them to stay away from long songs, but despite this our tenacious trio went ahead with 2112’s title track,

This is accurate. This also would have been thier last album had it not been successful because the label threatened to pull thier distributorship and american deal for refusing to listen to thier artistic demands.

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Of course, the band were duly rewarded with success,


Not so accurate. Rush were touring around in a conversion van taking turns driving and were severely in debt until around 1980 and getting sick from bad food across the country.

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The lyrics may seem to be rather too much in debt to right wing author Ayn Rand -


Right wing? more like an anarchist. And Neil wrote this story before he had read anthem. A friend of his read the lyrics and told him was very close to anthem, so he acknowledged her story in the credits. Song "Anthem" is said to be inspired by other Rand work, but accordingly he never read that story until much later.

Quote:
describing a suppressed peon under a suspiciously Communistic society discovering a guitar and rebelling against his oppressors. In simple terms, however, this is a celebration of Rock music, resonating with everyone who’s ever been told to ‘turn that racket down!’


He was a drone being controlled by fascist theocracy that had no art and no beauty and no individuality who discovered that people could feel emotions because of the way the guitar made him feel with playing it.

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Although the focus will always shine heaviest on the title track, the five other songs on the album all deserve their share of the light. A Passage To Bangkok is another classic song, often interpreted as being a paean to weed,


That's how Neil Peart, writer, interprets it., so I guess i'll agree with him it isn't about where to get the best stir-fry beef.

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Rush... prove their superiority.


Indeed.

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but I can virtually guarantee that you’ll love it
People in general don't deserve to be given credit for enjoying tasteful music.

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assuming you’re not one of those sillies that can’t stand Lee’s voice.


...Dumbasses


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A clichéd interpretation of politics is that the Left speaks to the brain whilst the Right speaks to the heart


If you understood the references in the song, you'd see it was more about religion than politics - Spiritual vs. Carnal

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 7:02 am 
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Einherjar
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Like Mintrude, Hemispheres is my Rush album. 2112 is indeed a classic though. That was a well written review so thanks for that.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 11:24 am 
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Adveser wrote:
Quote:
Released in 1976 2112 managed to save Rush commercially after the concept pieces on previous album Caress Of Steel failed to catch the public’s imagination. The band’s label wanted them to stay away from long songs, but despite this our tenacious trio went ahead with 2112’s title track,

This is accurate. This also would have been thier last album had it not been successful because the label threatened to pull thier distributorship and american deal for refusing to listen to thier artistic demands.

Quote:
Of course, the band were duly rewarded with success,


Not so accurate. Rush were touring around in a conversion van taking turns driving and were severely in debt until around 1980 and getting sick from bad food across the country.

Quote:
The lyrics may seem to be rather too much in debt to right wing author Ayn Rand -


Right wing? more like an anarchist. And Neil wrote this story before he had read anthem. A friend of his read the lyrics and told him was very close to anthem, so he acknowledged her story in the credits. Song "Anthem" is said to be inspired by other Rand work, but accordingly he never read that story until much later.

Quote:
describing a suppressed peon under a suspiciously Communistic society discovering a guitar and rebelling against his oppressors. In simple terms, however, this is a celebration of Rock music, resonating with everyone who’s ever been told to ‘turn that racket down!’


He was a drone being controlled by fascist theocracy that had no art and no beauty and no individuality who discovered that people could feel emotions because of the way the guitar made him feel with playing it.

Quote:
Although the focus will always shine heaviest on the title track, the five other songs on the album all deserve their share of the light. A Passage To Bangkok is another classic song, often interpreted as being a paean to weed,


That's how Neil Peart, writer, interprets it., so I guess i'll agree with him it isn't about where to get the best stir-fry beef.

Quote:
Rush... prove their superiority.


Indeed.

Quote:
but I can virtually guarantee that you’ll love it
People in general don't deserve to be given credit for enjoying tasteful music.

Quote:
assuming you’re not one of those sillies that can’t stand Lee’s voice.


...Dumbasses


Quote:
A clichéd interpretation of politics is that the Left speaks to the brain whilst the Right speaks to the heart


If you understood the references in the song, you'd see it was more about religion than politics - Spiritual vs. Carnal


Everyone on the forum is happier now that you've given the review some credibility, Adveser.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 12:13 pm 
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Sailor Man
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He is the quote master, don't touch him...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 12:40 pm 
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:D

Pretty lame to post all those "corrections"


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 1:50 pm 
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Adveser wrote:
Quote:
Of course, the band were duly rewarded with success,

Not so accurate. Rush were touring around in a conversion van taking turns driving and were severely in debt until around 1980 and getting sick from bad food across the country.


Yes, well, if you'd have quoted me properly you'd know that I went on to state some sales figures, and was referring to those rather than what the band drove about in whilst on tour. Also, the decision to make another long song paid off for the band, as in the previous sentence.

Adveser wrote:
Quote:
The lyrics may seem to be rather too much in debt to right wing author Ayn Rand -

Right wing? more like an anarchist. And Neil wrote this story before he had read anthem. A friend of his read the lyrics and told him was very close to anthem, so he acknowledged her story in the credits. Song "Anthem" is said to be inspired by other Rand work, but accordingly he never read that story until much later.


Not at all. Anarchism is generally associated with the extreme left of the political spectrum, and by saying things like white settlers are right to massacre natives merely because they're stronger, Rand's put herself pretty darn close to Fascism in my view. Anarchists, if you've ever talked to any, tend not hold Fascist views.

Adveser wrote:
Quote:
describing a suppressed peon under a suspiciously Communistic society discovering a guitar and rebelling against his oppressors. In simple terms, however, this is a celebration of Rock music, resonating with everyone who’s ever been told to ‘turn that racket down!’


He was a drone being controlled by fascist theocracy that had no art and no beauty and no individuality who discovered that people could feel emotions because of the way the guitar made him feel with playing it.


Yes, and it still sounds like Stalinist Russia to me. And it ties in exactly with my interpretation, so what your point was meant to add I'm not quite certain.

Adveser wrote:
Quote:
A clichéd interpretation of politics is that the Left speaks to the brain whilst the Right speaks to the heart


If you understood the references in the song, you'd see it was more about religion than politics - Spiritual vs. Carnal


I wasn't referring to that song directly as much as the album as a whole, and tieing it in with the political elements, ie, pointing out that right-wingers are fond of emotions and feelings, and the album succeeds when looked at from that angle.

I'm really glad that you agree with me otherwise, though. So glad.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 3:45 pm 
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Einherjar

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Sorry, I'm a die hard Rush fan. :)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 7:34 pm 
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Zad wrote:

Adveser wrote:
Quote:
A clichéd interpretation of politics is that the Left speaks to the brain whilst the Right speaks to the heart


If you understood the references in the song, you'd see it was more about religion than politics - Spiritual vs. Carnal


I wasn't referring to that song directly as much as the album as a whole, and tieing it in with the political elements, ie, pointing out that right-wingers are fond of emotions and feelings, and the album succeeds when looked at from that angle.

I'm really glad that you agree with me otherwise, though. So glad.


It's rather interesting that Hemipsheres' title track talks about a balance of heart and mind. Perhaps it's talking about a centrist viewpoint?


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 4:09 am 
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Einherjar
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This album is sexy.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 5:11 am 
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Einherjar

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Great review. Will check out...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 4:05 pm 
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>A clichéd interpretation of politics is that the Left speaks to the brain whilst the Right speaks to the heart
>right-wingers are fond of emotions and feelings

Uh, I think you've got that backwards. (So completely backwards that I actually started laughing.) Where in the world did you get that idea? No offense, but that's really bizarre. The Left has been the home of the whole touchy-feely thing, political correctness, and all that other emotionalism for many decades. (Hippies, anyone?) The Right is always being accused of being heartless and all that, not the Left. (Thus the saying that "If you're not a liberal when you're young you've got no heart, and if you're not a conservative when you're old you've got no brain.") Maybe so-called liberals (who are usually only liberal with their morals and other people's money) are prone to thinking in other countries, but emotion is king on the Left in the United States. American conservatism is a highly anti-emotional movement, which is why it can be so unpopular with kids as they go through the self-centered and hormone-driven years of puberty.

Wow. Right-wingers fond of emotion? That's an assertion I never, ever thought I'd hear. But like I said, the definition of "Right" and "Left" and "liberal" and "conservative" differ in each country. If it's applied to the U.S., it's absolutely ludicrous.

Part of the debate about the lyrics here seems to be based on the fallacy that communism and fascism are different. They're not. They're both forms of collectivism that are forced onto people, thus depriving them of their freedom. (Stalinist Russia and Nazi Germany were simply two forms of the same thing.) Ayn Rand was against collectivism and every other form of slavery. So, if somebody is against Rand's political philosophy, it's natural to assume that he or she either 1) has no clue as to what Ayn Rand was talking about or 2) likes oppression. Personally, I prefer freedom, but to each his own.

Also, if you understand Rand's views, you'll find that they are much closer to libertarian philosophy than either liberalism or conservatism


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 5:16 pm 
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When I made the references to politics in the review, I was mentioning it more because Rush is such a political band than anything else.

Still: it's a known fact that in America today those on the left are accused of 'intellectualism'. Look at Bush's to-the-heart speeches compared to the likes of Gore's more thought-out stuff. That isn't saying that Gore is left-wing, but it'll help you understand what I was getting at. It's hard to pin either 'wing' of politics down these days, but the left certainly seems to reach its 'touchy-feely' conclusions through reason, whereas the right tends to appeal to emotion. Yes, cue a flurry of examples where I'm wrong, but this is my opinion. We can quote outdated sayings at each other until we're blue in the face, it won't help either at the end.

At their end result, as seen through the governments that used them in the twentieth century, Communism and Fascism may well be very similar, but they aren't intended to be. Communism was about making every man equal, Fascism quite the opposite. That Stalin ended up being little different from Hitler doesn't mean that the ideologies were the same to start with.

And if Rand is not a fascist explain her remarks that I mentioned above, about the American Indians?

Quote:
So, if somebody is against Rand's political philosophy, it's natural to assume that he or she either 1) has no clue as to what Ayn Rand was talking about or 2) likes oppression. Personally, I prefer freedom, but to each his own.


How does that make me "like oppression"? All very well saying that I have no clue what I'm on about, but that seems to me to be an emotional response rather than a reasoned one. I mean, who goes on about freedom all the time? Not the left! Ten points to me! :wink: Anyways, libertarian essays that I've read on, for example, how we should stop messing about and simply nuke Iran don't seem very leftwards to me. Quite the opposite.

I actually think I was quite balanced to the band's politics in the review, even going as far as to say why I enjoy the music despite my differing views, so why I'm being attacked for it now I'm not sure.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 5:20 pm 
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We're getting pretty deep here aren't we? :lol:


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 6:36 pm 
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This is what happens when a secret society purposely creates a paradigm.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 7:54 pm 
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Ist Krieg
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Quote:
Uh, I think you've got that backwards. (So completely backwards that I actually started laughing.) Where in the world did you get that idea? No offense, but that's really bizarre. The Left has been the home of the whole touchy-feely thing, political correctness, and all that other emotionalism for many decades. (Hippies, anyone?) The Right is always being accused of being heartless and all that, not the Left. (Thus the saying that "If you're not a liberal when you're young you've got no heart, and if you're not a conservative when you're old you've got no brain.") Maybe so-called liberals (who are usually only liberal with their morals and other people's money) are prone to thinking in other countries, but emotion is king on the Left in the United States. American conservatism is a highly anti-emotional movement, which is why it can be so unpopular with kids as they go through the self-centered and hormone-driven years of puberty.

Seeing as how the 2004 elections were won as a reaction to gay marriage, I wouldn't say right-wing in the US has anything to do with the brain. Then again I also think that the US's idea of Liberal and Conservative is incredibly detached from what the terms actually mean

Quote:
(Stalinist Russia and Nazi Germany were simply two forms of the same thing.)

and neither was communism! funny how that works. I'm all for the oppression of the rich.

Quote:
So, if somebody is against Rand's political philosophy, it's natural to assume that he or she either 1) has no clue as to what Ayn Rand was talking about or 2) likes oppression. Personally, I prefer freedom, but to each his own.

I'm against Rand's political philosophy because the government just steps back and lets rich assholes screw morons even harder than they do now.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 3:47 am 
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Rand's basic ideas are in opposition to fascism but the selfishness she proposes creates the same awful side effects fascism mainly by ignoring weaker or misrepresented people or ideas.

Oh and if you consider communism equal to an authoritarian state umm yeah communism is not equal to what Stalin created.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 5:21 am 
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Einherjar

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I think it must be mentioned that Lenin's version of communism DID work. When he died it turned to shit.

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