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PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2007 1:36 am 
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Jeg lever med min foreldre

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Kathaarian wrote:
I don't think musicians need to do any of that stuff at all. They don't have any obligation to be active. Music is their way of expressing themselves and they only need to do that and nothing else. If musicians need to practice what they preach then Cannibal Corpse needs to slaughter babies, Varg needs to become the next Hitler, and a lot of bm bands need to sacrifice themselves to Satan. All of these are stupid and will never happen.

Artists may point out the flaws in society, it is other people's job to do something to fix it.


CC and the like aren't preaching, you can't compare them to, say, Napalm Death.

as for the second paragraph i disagree, it's everyone's job to at least do their part in fixing.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2007 2:34 am 
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Einherjar
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Seinfeld26 wrote:

May be join or start a political rally? Try bringing their music and political views to a wider audience? Volunteer? Start a non-profit? Do something I haven't even thought of? If Sepultura and Testament can be socially active, so can Lamb of God, Slayer, Phil Anselmo and Exodus (Lord bless them, I love all four bands - three if you don't count Phil Anselmo, who's basically a solo artist for all intents and purposes).

I know a lot of metal bands probably don't have the money, respect or resources to do all these things. But it's a little hypocritical of them to rant about how society's going to pot, and then spend their non-music time just sitting around watching TV or goofing off, rather than at least attempting to do something about what they're complaing about. Even if they're just starting a local non-profit to deal with, say, a corrupt mayor or Urban Apathy. It's better than nothing at all. But if you front a metal band and don't even have the incentive/wish to better society, then may be you shouldn't be ranting about it so much in your music. Otherwise, you're not really accomplishing anything other than may be gaining a few anti-social adolescent fans.




It has always been the duty of the "arts' to provide social commentary via whatever branch the artist is involved. They're doing their part by focusing attention on whatever particular issue that they're commenting on. Case in point would be the recent attention Dave Mustain has conjured due to Megadeth's "United Abominations" track. Well, really the entire CD but that song raised the ire of a few over at the UN obviously. Dave has safely performed his civic duty.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2007 3:58 am 
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Ist Krieg
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Azrael wrote:
Kathaarian wrote:
I don't think musicians need to do any of that stuff at all. They don't have any obligation to be active. Music is their way of expressing themselves and they only need to do that and nothing else. If musicians need to practice what they preach then Cannibal Corpse needs to slaughter babies, Varg needs to become the next Hitler, and a lot of bm bands need to sacrifice themselves to Satan. All of these are stupid and will never happen.

Artists may point out the flaws in society, it is other people's job to do something to fix it.


CC and the like aren't preaching, you can't compare them to, say, Napalm Death.

as for the second paragraph i disagree, it's everyone's job to at least do their part in fixing.


Not preaching? Napalm Death aren't telling anyone to do anything either, they just sing about that shit. So do CC.

Disagree all you want, you know there is absolutely nothing you and me can do to fix the society and certainly not a musician which has to keep a day job to pay his taxes. This is exactly why shit ass bands like Green Day have no real effect on people, these stupid teens give some change to a beggar and whoo they are a part of the solution. Get the fuck out.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2007 5:37 am 
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Ist Krieg
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One of the guys from Midnight Oil is a politician now, respekt.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2007 11:09 am 
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Jeg lever med min foreldre

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what i was trying to say is that it's one thing for a band to approach political or social issues and another thing to sing about crushing maggots. it's likely that the 1st kind of lyrics reflect the artist's own opinions and that they're practiceable things, on the other hand no one really wants to fuck someone with a knife.

and by "their part in fixing" i meant generally being a good person and being at least minimally politically active (you know, by voting), obviously i don't expect everyone to form their own political party.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2007 4:54 pm 
Azrael wrote:
what i was trying to say is that it's one thing for a band to approach political or social issues and another thing to sing about crushing maggots. it's likely that the 1st kind of lyrics reflect the artist's own opinions and that they're practiceable things, on the other hand no one really wants to fuck someone with a knife.

and by "their part in fixing" i meant generally being a good person and being at least minimally politically active (you know, by voting), obviously i don't expect everyone to form their own political party.


Exactly. It doesn't have to be anything really big or elaborate. But it should at least be something to show honest concern about these issues, and that these musicians aren't just "rebelling for rebelliousness's sake." For example, voting.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2007 5:27 pm 
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Seinfeld26 wrote:
Azrael wrote:
what i was trying to say is that it's one thing for a band to approach political or social issues and another thing to sing about crushing maggots. it's likely that the 1st kind of lyrics reflect the artist's own opinions and that they're practiceable things, on the other hand no one really wants to fuck someone with a knife.

and by "their part in fixing" i meant generally being a good person and being at least minimally politically active (you know, by voting), obviously i don't expect everyone to form their own political party.


Exactly. It doesn't have to be anything really big or elaborate. But it should at least be something to show honest concern about these issues, and that these musicians aren't just "rebelling for rebelliousness's sake." For example, voting.


So? For all we know every single metal musician might have voted, and we wouldn't know about it. Unless Tom Araya goes on stage with a "I Voted" badge on there's no way you can know about it.

And if I was a known musician and say, handing out food to the poor, you can bet that I would do everything humanly possible to keep it a secret. It is very rude to talk and brag about such a thing and it loses it's value, as if you're doing it for publicity. You guys are blindly criticizing what you don't know.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2007 11:07 pm 
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Ist Krieg
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I think music is a bad medium for political statements because you can generally only state your opinion without explaining it using lyrics and I don't like art that needs an outside explanation to understand its appeal (this includes everything from explaining where they're coming from with lyrics to "they can play their instruments so well!! omg!!!").

God I hate people who say "yeah but I play guitar and he's an amazing guitarist" as an explanation for liking godawful shite.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2007 11:10 pm 
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Jeg lever med min foreldre

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hey, i didn't criticize anyone, i just disagreed with what you said about expecting musicians to live up to their lyirics.

on a related note, though, bands like SOAD signed to major labels and gladly appearing on MTV should fuck off.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2007 12:08 am 
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I agree with azrael that bands who talk about politics or whatever probably put more thought into their lyrics than bands who scream about bloody gore. I don't think it matters that SOAD or Rage Against the Machine are signed to major labels though because where do you draw the line about what's "too" capitalist about music... I think it's silly to expect a band to go to the anti-marketting extremes of Fugazi (who didn't sell any merchandise and forced promoters to keep ticket prices as low as possible) just so they can sing about capitalism.

personally i wont hold it against either though if they dont actually act on their music. it's cool that Wolves in the Throne Room hate humanity enough to live on a self sufficient commune but it doesn't effect my opinion of their music.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2007 3:41 am 
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Honestly, I don't want musicians to talk about politics. I don't want to be preached to while I'm listening to music. I know that George Bush is a douche I don't need musicians telling me. I would much rather them sing about gore, war, or even religion just not politics. Everyone has completely different views when it comes to politics. Singing about politics always makes it sound preachy.

As for Green Day, influencing their fans to just dislike Bush is pretty fucking stupid when that is the only thing they did. The fact that their fans didn't know that before some song shows how stupid they were in the first place.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2007 6:44 am 
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Einherjar

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This annoys me


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2007 9:44 am 
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This annoys me


It's not just annoying, it's flat out creepy.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2007 12:22 pm 
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traptunderice wrote:
Honestly, I don't want musicians to talk about politics. I don't want to be preached to while I'm listening to music.


Having political lyrics = preaching? Whatever.

I completely disagree with you. I prefer music to have some substance beyond just being a bunch of notes in succession. I'm not denying that a lot of bands fail at political lyrics, though.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2007 3:57 pm 
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Jürgen wrote:
traptunderice wrote:
Honestly, I don't want musicians to talk about politics. I don't want to be preached to while I'm listening to music.


Having political lyrics = preaching? Whatever.

I completely disagree with you. I prefer music to have some substance beyond just being a bunch of notes in succession. I'm not denying that a lot of bands fail at political lyrics, though.
I never said I don't want substance in a song. It's just hard to sing along to Megadeth with Mustaine being a Christian conservative douche. I would rather a band not have political lyrics then to fail at them. Singing about religion or war is fine but when it come to politics, it just seems the band is trying to press their views on the audience especially with mainstream bands like Greed Day, SOAD or RATM. Most of the time, fans like Green Day's aren't intelligent enough to think differently from what they are spoon fed so they fucken eat it up like an absolute truth.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2007 4:18 pm 
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traptunderice wrote:
Jürgen wrote:
traptunderice wrote:
Honestly, I don't want musicians to talk about politics. I don't want to be preached to while I'm listening to music.


Having political lyrics = preaching? Whatever.

I completely disagree with you. I prefer music to have some substance beyond just being a bunch of notes in succession. I'm not denying that a lot of bands fail at political lyrics, though.


I never said I don't want substance in a song. It's just hard to sing along to Megadeth with Mustaine being a Christian conservative douche. I would rather a band not have political lyrics then to fail at them. Singing about religion or war is fine but when it come to politics, it just seems the band is trying to press their views on the audience especially with mainstream bands like Greed Day, SOAD or RATM. Most of the time, fans like Green Day's aren't intelligent enough to think differently from what they are spoon fed so they fucken eat it up like an absolute truth.


I see where you're coming from, i just view ideological content in music more as food for thought. I listen to a lot of music that endorses things that i don't believe in, and it doesn't bother me as long as it's done well.

But sure, a lot of musicians who sing about politics or religion just end up looking like dumbasses. And sure, there's a lot of stuff out there that is so opposite to my own views that i just can't enjoy it, no matter how good the music. I just ignore that stuff.

A lot of people do just eat up what is fed to them by their idols, but is it really the artist's fault?


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2007 4:25 pm 
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I think it's better for these kids to be blindly following a lefty agenda like Green Day's rather than, say, Graveland. At the end of the day, you just have to learn to deal with politics in music the same way you do for goregrind lyrics.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2007 5:12 pm 
traptunderice wrote:
Jürgen wrote:
traptunderice wrote:
Honestly, I don't want musicians to talk about politics. I don't want to be preached to while I'm listening to music.


Having political lyrics = preaching? Whatever.

I completely disagree with you. I prefer music to have some substance beyond just being a bunch of notes in succession. I'm not denying that a lot of bands fail at political lyrics, though.
I never said I don't want substance in a song. It's just hard to sing along to Megadeth with Mustaine being a Christian conservative douche. I would rather a band not have political lyrics then to fail at them. Singing about religion or war is fine but when it come to politics, it just seems the band is trying to press their views on the audience especially with mainstream bands like Greed Day, SOAD or RATM. Most of the time, fans like Green Day's aren't intelligent enough to think differently from what they are spoon fed so they fucken eat it up like an absolute truth.


Bands do the same thing with war and religion, though. Pro or against, they often seem to be pressing their views on everybody else. It's difficult to write music and lyrics WITHOUT pressing your views on people in some way. Unless you're a boy band and all you ever write is love songs.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2007 7:19 pm 
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Zad wrote:
I think it's better for these kids to be blindly following a lefty agenda like Green Day's rather than, say, Graveland. At the end of the day, you just have to learn to deal with politics in music the same way you do for goregrind lyrics.


Shut it commie.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2007 7:33 pm 
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What kind of lame-o doesn't like political bands? United Abominations is so enjoyable partly because of all the ranting, even if it is stupid. As for righteous lefty bands, so much the better. I've not really listened to much these past few days except Rage Against the Machine, partly because the lyrics are so very very awesome


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