Dragonforce????

derncare · **Joined:** Sat Jul 16, 2005 4:40 am **Posts:** 731

Jimi pioneered the use of several techniques and various pieces of equipment used by players of nearly every genre of music, so it's hard not to bestow that status on him.

Eyesore · **Posted:** Sun Oct 22, 2006 7:16 pm

FrigidSymphony wrote:

I know hendrix is an amazing guitar player, but i don't know... he just doesn't seem like a legend to me.

He was a legend 30 years ago! Whether he seems like a legend to you or not is irrelevant. He IS a legend. Accept it. Move on. Die.

Dago · **Posted:** Sun Oct 22, 2006 7:37 pm

Eyesore wrote:

noodles wrote:

and there's no way Pantera could play BTBAM's Selkies, or anything from The Dillinger Escape Plan's Calculating Infinity, or anything by Behold the Arctopus and not make total fools of themselves. And I wasn't trying to change facts; the first paragraph of my post was my opinion.

Hahahaha. Dimebag could play anything either of those bands have written with one hand.

leee · **Posted:** Sun Oct 22, 2006 7:40 pm

DevotedWalnut wrote:

So many people made fun of thrash in this long heated discussion, why do most people (mainly leee) pick on Canadian thrash?

And I think Dimebag is a guitar legend, buts that me a thrash fan, what do I know?

Walls of Jericho era Helloween is my favourite era of them, and I also really enjoy early Gamma Ray.

As for DragonForce, I only heard like 2 or 3 songs and I like fast music but I can't stand that kind of singing, and I hate most keyboard filled bands (except CoB). So maybe one day I will actually buy a DF album but it wont be anytime soon.

Because love for Razor and Exciter annoy me.

DevotedWalnut · **Posted:** Sun Oct 22, 2006 7:41 pm

Eyesore wrote:

noodles wrote:

Dimebag's style is the opposite of what I would call good guitar playing. Why get that good at your instrument and then write such simple and uninteresting riffs? If someone is going to be praised as a great they should have at least tried to push their bands's ability to play complex music in a tight and unique fashion. Then again I don't like focusing on a single member of the band and I find the synergy a group of musicians create much more interesting than pointless soloing.

And being a legend doesn't really have anything to do with talent. I mean Kurt Cobain could be considered a legend because he wrote Smells Like Teen Spirit, which pretty much anyone to have a picked up a guitar in the last 10 years knows.

Do you have any idea how ignorant you sound? These bands that you listen to, noodles, couldn't even begin to play the shit Dimebag played! Yet it was extremely simple, right? Have you not hear Between The Buried And Me's cover of "Cemetary Gates?" It's complete shit! Every aspect of it is a joke! There you have a bunch of terrible musicians trying to copy one of the greatest guitarists that ever lived. Is it any surprise that they failed? Hardly. You ever wonder why most bands cover "Walk" by Pantera? Because it's one of the FEW songs that is easy to play.

I realize that all you young people want to act like experts, but you cannot for a second try to act as if YOU know what you're talking about when the shit you're to discredit was already FACT when you were potty-training! It's ridiculous that you even waste your time trying to convince people that you're right, trying to change history and fact just because you have a keyboard!

You play guitar, right, noodles? I want you to record some Pantera for us, and share it. If it's so easy.

And Kurt Cobain IS a legend, not "could be," is! And he was already BEFORE he killed himself. FACT! You're wrong. End of story.

Oh Snap! The mighty Eyesore strikes again! :omfg:

And to Noodles, Dimebag is and will always be a guitar legend.

leee · **Posted:** Sun Oct 22, 2006 7:43 pm

noodles wrote:

and there's no way Pantera could play BTBAM's Selkies, or anything from The Dillinger Escape Plan's Calculating Infinity, or anything by Behold the Arctopus and not make total fools of themselves. And I wasn't trying to change facts; the first paragraph of my post was my opinion.

Dude, that is horse shit. Playing Technical Guitar wank doesn't make you a legend or even a guitar god. Having soul and passion that pushes what you do does. Dimebag is a legend, let it fucking go.

stuartn15ted · **Posted:** Sun Oct 22, 2006 7:44 pm

Eyesore wrote:

FrigidSymphony wrote:

I know hendrix is an amazing guitar player, but i don't know... he just doesn't seem like a legend to me.

He was a legend 30 years ago! Whether he seems like a legend to you or not is irrelevant. He IS a legend. Accept it. Move on. Die.

Hendrix = True legend. Liimatainen is not.

Vai, Satriani, Clapton, Segovia, Stevie Ray Vaughan and BB King are all true legends. I agree with Gilmour and Page to.

leee · **Posted:** Sun Oct 22, 2006 7:45 pm

Eyesore wrote:

noodles wrote:

and there's no way Pantera could play BTBAM's Selkies, or anything from The Dillinger Escape Plan's Calculating Infinity, or anything by Behold the Arctopus and not make total fools of themselves. And I wasn't trying to change facts; the first paragraph of my post was my opinion.

Hahahaha. Dimebag could play anything either of those bands have written with one hand.

He could play it with his dick while he was punching those faggots out with one hand, drinking jack with the other and snorting a line of coke of his amp.

I am not the hugest Pantera fan but you better fucking recognize Cowboys from Hell and Vulgar for the great albums they are.

derncare · **Joined:** Sat Jul 16, 2005 4:40 am **Posts:** 731

Dimebag was definitely one of those "pour your soul into your axe" players too.

DevotedWalnut · **Posted:** Sun Oct 22, 2006 7:47 pm

Eyesore wrote:

noodles wrote:

and there's no way Pantera could play BTBAM's Selkies, or anything from The Dillinger Escape Plan's Calculating Infinity, or anything by Behold the Arctopus and not make total fools of themselves. And I wasn't trying to change facts; the first paragraph of my post was my opinion.

Hahahaha. Dimebag could play anything either of those bands have written with one hand.

He probably could, but why would he want to play that shit?

DevotedWalnut · **Posted:** Sun Oct 22, 2006 7:53 pm

leee wrote:

DevotedWalnut wrote:

So many people made fun of thrash in this long heated discussion, why do most people (mainly leee) pick on Canadian thrash?

And I think Dimebag is a guitar legend, buts that me a thrash fan, what do I know?

Walls of Jericho era Helloween is my favourite era of them, and I also really enjoy early Gamma Ray.

As for DragonForce, I only heard like 2 or 3 songs and I like fast music but I can't stand that kind of singing, and I hate most keyboard filled bands (except CoB). So maybe one day I will actually buy a DF album but it wont be anytime soon.

Because love for Razor and Exciter annoy me.

Well I don't love Exciter, but I do like them. And Razor is awesome no matter what you say.

derncare · **Joined:** Sat Jul 16, 2005 4:40 am **Posts:** 731

The fact of the matter is, despite all the debate here, all of our personal opinions really have little to do with who the real legends are. how many of us here listen to Chuck Berry? How many metalheads can list more than 5 of his songs? It doesn't matter. He's a guitar legend. Jimi hendrix is a guitar legend. And no matter how overrated and crappy I think Nirvana is...Kurt Cobain is a legend. Becoming a recognized legend has less to do with how good someone was at something and more to do with how much of a cultural impact they made. Unfortunately, there are musicians many of us would consider lackluster who are legends, and there are great ones who will likely never be considered legends.

Eyesore · **Posted:** Sun Oct 22, 2006 9:48 pm

derncare wrote:

The fact of the matter is, despite all the debate here, all of our personal opinions really have little to do with who the real legends are. how many of us here listen to Chuck Berry? How many metalheads can list more than 5 of his songs? It doesn't matter. He's a guitar legend. Jimi hendrix is a guitar legend. And no matter how overrated and crappy I think Nirvana is...Kurt Cobain is a legend. Becoming a recognized legend has less to do with how good someone was at something and more to do with how much of a cultural impact they made. Unfortunately, there are musicians many of us would consider lackluster who are legends, and there are great ones who will likely never be considered legends.

But the point is that there is no point in arguing it. I dislike The Beatles, I don't like their music. I can say that. It's an opinion. But you'll never see me come in here going, "BAH! The Beatles are way fucking overrated. Their music is simple and boring. They're not fucking legends! I'll take The Strokes and Oasis over those talentless turds any day of the week!"

It's just stupid.

derncare · **Joined:** Sat Jul 16, 2005 4:40 am **Posts:** 731

That's kind of what my point was. We don't have to like someone for them to be considered legends in the music community, and while we might think someone's status is overblown or whatever, we have to accept that there is a reason for them being there. I recognize Nirvana's impact even though I don't like the music. Arguing over who is a legend is pointless because these people's status was elevated long before we all started talking about, and out discussions won't change it at all. This isn't the same as arguing over opinions on music.

Caligula_K · **Joined:** Mon Nov 22, 2004 8:56 pm **Posts:** 3561

Recognising a band's impact and being unable to criticize them are two different things. I can say that The Beatles are overrated; to me, they are, and the only album of theirs I can stand is The White Album. That doesn't mean I don't recognize the impact they had on music and why they are considered legends; but I still can criticize their music.

noodles · **Posted:** Mon Oct 23, 2006 2:23 am

@rio: i have a lot of respect for jazz musicians because of their influence on good music, but all of the jazz I've heard focuses too much on soloing. And I can't stand improv because it tends to be like 25% genius, 75% boring. :/

And, in my opinion, Dimebag is not a good guitarist. He has not written any good music (or maybe he has, but Vulgar Display of Power was enough to make me not want to hear any more Pantera) and, with maybe one or two exceptions (Biomechanical, Strapping Young Lad, Nevermore), his influence only extends to bands I don't like. So nyeh.

PS. Robert Fripp is the bestest guitarist ever.

Quote:

Dude, that is horse shit. Playing Technical Guitar wank doesn't make you a legend or even a guitar god. Having soul and passion that pushes what you do does. Dimebag is a legend, let it fucking go.

Perhaps you mean sounding like you have soul and passion? I don't think that anyone would bother taking the time it takes to become that talented without caring deeply about their instrument.

:rolleyes:

noodles · **Posted:** Mon Oct 23, 2006 2:42 am

anyways... I'm on the highly populated side that Dragonforce are fun and energetic, but only one or two songs at a time.

rio · **Posted:** Mon Oct 23, 2006 2:25 pm

noodles wrote:

@rio: i have a lot of respect for jazz musicians because of their influence on good music, but all of the jazz I've heard focuses too much on soloing. And I can't stand improv because it tends to be like 25% genius, 75% boring. :/

Well, I can't imagine which improvising musicians you've been listening to that are genius 25% of the time and boring the rest.

It's very easy to complain when a genre uses a lot of soloing, but only if you think about it in a very one dimensional way. How does the rhythmn section react to the soloist? How does the soloist respond to what the rhythmn section is doing? This is what jazz is based on, and this is what the group synergy you referred to means. What it does not mean is technically precise musicians that play exactly the same things to the note every night.

Quote:

And, in my opinion, Dimebag is not a good guitarist.

I think there is a difference between being a good guitarist and a good musician. I can certainly accept that the latter is a matter of opinion, but I am not at all convinced that the former is because it implies more technical factors regarding actual control over the instrument. Which, Dimebag had, so I do think it is objectively wrong to say he wasn't a good guitarist.

Radagast · **Posted:** Mon Oct 23, 2006 2:45 pm

While I can admire Dime's skillz, I don't like the biggest percentage of his music or the music his influence helped to shape. Also, any exposure I've had to the sort of guy he was always left me shaking my head.

So, I propose that a person being a 'legend' need not be an objective thing. So sure, I can see how someone who is into Pantera, aggro metal and obnoxious drunks (I jest, sort of

) would find him a legend. They'd basically have to. But most everything he did left me cold.

derncare · **Joined:** Sat Jul 16, 2005 4:40 am **Posts:** 731

While I think he was an excellent guitar player (although some Pantera albums as a whole don't do much for me), I think Dime is held in such high regard more for what he did for other people than anything else. Alot of people who have been around him or on tour with him have shared stories of this larger-than-life great person who always made being good to other people a poriority. My neighbor used to party with Vinnie and Dime in Dallas and has said they were the greatest people she ever met. She isn't even into metal, but she loved Dime. Again, it's sometimes not just the music itself that elevates someone's status.

Critiquing and debating someone's music is one thing, but debating legendary status is just too hard because no two legends got to be legends for the exact same reasons.

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