Metal Reviews

I mentioned Evil/suicidal, in which "/" means or. There is nothing suicidal about Venom, but it's fucking evil ay? Venom and Deathspell Omega are both evil, and both in a different way, I agree with that. They're both black metal as well, I can't see the problem. I'm not going to define bluntness or (again or, not and) brutality, because when you describe a genre, the words themselves should tell enough, in every interpretation. They're all brutal, and they're all DM, I can't see how that contradicts my reasoning here. Neither of them sound really evil, only violent which is something that can be placed in both genres.

If I give you 20 black metal bands that sound almost exactly the same, and I don't give you the lyrics, you can NOT pick out which ones are satanic. Satanic themes can also be present in other ways than screaming Satan, but very often, they are not. Kim's example is good: Burzum, a fucking milestone in the land of black metal, at least 30% of the bands around now is influenced by Varg, and there is nothing heard in the music. A lot of black metal is based on nihilism as well, it's ridiculous to say that all black metal is satanic, even most bands that use the word satan in their lyrics claim that it's merely just for the sound of it and that they are nonreligious. You can claim that it's not really black metal, but it sounds just as harsh and evil as the black metal you speak of.

So it started with a satanic band, but what about Bathory, first wave black metal as well. Quothon claimed that although he used satanic lyrics for a start, he quickly switched to viking stuff to gain a sound of his own. If the early albums are such an extremely strict definition of the genre, then you can't call anything that doesn't sound like evil thrash metal, black metal either.

\m/ agree 100%

Bathory ceased being black metal after Blood Fire Death

What the fuck is a botswana?

A wee country, dude.

Wuhuu!! Teh internets fight about the tr00 essense of black metal, for satans sage...

Taking a step back.....
......uh.......Skyfire, Throne of Chaos...?

Don't get all riled up, this is just the way i view black metal. I'm pretty sure everyone has heard every argument presented by all sides here before, but i'll continue anyway.





They invented the term and used it to describe their music. They are 100% black metal, even if they don't sound very alike to the new bands of the genre.



What the fuck is a BM screech?! A lot of BM bands have screechy vocals, but there aren't any screechy vocals on De Mysteriis Dom Sathanas, Drawing Down the Moon or Fallen Angel of Doom, for example.

Mayhem, Beherit and Blasphemy are not black metal then? Or are they somehow less BM than bands with screechy vocals?



Hatecore is not a real genre, because it's basically just hardcore with racist lyrics? How about gangsta rap?
Lyrics alone do not make a genre. But lyrics (and other "non-musical" things) can be an important factor in defining a genre.

Metal music + satanic lyrics/general aesthetics/ideology = black metal.





I don't know but they wouldn't be black metal. They would still be great music, just not black metal.



Slayer have been both influenced by (mainly Venom) and a big influence to black metal. I certainly recognize elements of BM in their music, especially the older stuff.

Slipknot is black/nu metal because they mention Satan? Mentioning Satan in your lyrics does not necessarily make the lyrics satanic, and satanic lyrics don't necessarily have to mention Satan either.
Darkthrone's lyrics are satanic, even if they don't mention Satan in every verse in every song, are they not?





That's just it. Black metal is not a certain kind of guitar riff, a certain drumbeat, a certain style of vocals or a certain kind of production.

It's a general aesthetic (that can be present in many different ways) and (usually) ideology. You can stretch the borders within black metal, but certain parameters must be met for the music to be black metal.

Nothing wrong with nature/NS/pagan/suicide/whatever BM-soundalikes, lots of great music found there. It's just not black metal in the original sense of the word.



Early Bathory is black metal, later Bathory is not. Even though Quorthon wasn't a satanist, the music he made was satanic metal and thus qualifies as black metal.



As i said before, black metal is not a certain kind of riff or beat etc. Venom, early Bathory, Darkthrone and DsO sound totally different, but they're all black metal and the unifying factor is satanism (be it an ideology or merely an aesthetic).

it is true that there are several types of black metal vox u won't find anywhere else, not only screeching vocals... BM also have some sort of howling vox, guttural rasp etc etc. They are rarely grownling, but they do accur from time to time, like in Beherit, however, they are not performed like in the death metal scene + plus beherit created a whole different evil atmosphere in their music (which belongs to black metal), unlike death metal bands.



first of all i don't agree, second of all "Metal music" is a way too big a spectre, in which most of the music has nothing in common with black metal. Just listen to regular death metal and black metal, there's a huge difference, and they have almost nothing in common. Metalcore, Power metal, Hair Metal etc etc with satanic lyrics doesn't make it black metal, it is a blasphemous thing to say.



no. Lyrics about Cold winter mountains ov the northern hemisphere is not satanic. They may be evil etc etc, but satanism is not necessarily equal to that. If so, Slipknot is satanic too, and so is Cannibal Corpse

Anyway, there are several types of satanism. One of them is more evil than the other one, so the less evil results in false black metal. If the band doesn't believe in satan and sacrifised virgins on the black alter during fullmoon, they are not satanic enough nor a black metal band. They are nothing but posers. Thus darkthrone is no longer a black metal band.




you're way too cought up in the old Mayhem ideology belonging to the pre- 91-93 period. Are you a satanist that believe black metal belongs to you, or something?

First of all, what the fuck is satanism to you?
Second of all, is blasphemy the same as satanism (yes it is)?
third of all, is aggressive rebellion against religion the same as blashemy (yes it is)?
if so, then nature/NS/pagan is also blasphemous and belongs to black metal (indeed). there for bands such as early Ulver is black metal too (Nattens Madrigal), thinking otherwise is just plain stupid... not to forget bands such as Moonblood

Remember, Black Metal is not music, its a feeling.

Honey, I won't be going to work today, I'm feeling Black Metal.

I'm not getting riled up, remember I don't care for BM like I used to. I think it's just a difference in opinion, you place a common ideology as a key and veto aspect of this perticular genre (followed by the music), I place the music first, because I can recognize what I deem to belong to the genre, by music alone. We would need a shitload of new genres could we not categorize that way. Enfin, difference in views, let's shut up about it.

I said that black metal is not black metal if it's not satanic, i did not say that black metal bands should be graded according to the degree of evilness in their satanism (whatever that means). LOL.



Hell yes i am. Did the meaning of the words black metal suddenly change after 1993? I think not.



No.



There are many forms of satanism and satanism can be many things. Ideology, philosophy, religion or simply a set of aesthetics (as it often is with BM).



Not necessarily.



Not necessarily.



I agree with you on this. NS and pagan themes (and many other things) can indeed be a part of black metal, but satanism is the basis.

he he, i know.. it was an atempt from my side to take your idea even further. Cuz LaVey satanism doesn't count as black metal satanism, for several reasons. It's nothing but humanistic atheism descuised behind an "evil" anti-christianity name so it looks cooler. However, when these satanist are confronted with their "belief", they say they really aren't anti-christian, cuz it was the christians who stole the name Satan, which means accuser, so it's just a coincidence LaVey's ideology is called Satanism and satan appears in the bible, you see. These kids, namely goths and other garbagecanlickers, are nothing but losers who find it boring to call themselves atheist, and since satanism put's a mark above their head they suddenly belong to a group of ppl and get an identity. They are weak.
It's quite funny though, if you go to the danish satanism forum you'll find a bunch of losers who spends most of their time complaining about the outside world doesn't understand them, and the outside world keeps calling them devilworshippers and evil. " they are so ignorant! we are really good ppl, we just happened to pick a really bad name. Or rather, the christians have abbused the name of satan and made him evil, in reality satan is a good guy, cuz satan means "accuser" in hebrew (or whatever)". Why did you become satanist in the first place, you idiots? because it sounded evil and you were rebelling against your parents, that's why.

This doesn't mean i find the "black metal satanism" intelligent or anything, but at least it's not trying not to be something it's not, since there's nothing to misunderstand.




i think that's a too big a spectrum of satanism, really. Naturalistic/ NS/ pagan/ suicidal bm bands can easily share the same aesthetics, ideology, philosophy as the satanic ones. Despite the naturalistic/pagan/ ns ones hates the satanic one for being lame and teenage-like.
And on the other hand, why not just call a shovel a shovel, instead of saying satanism can be many things, it's just a newer interpretation of the word satanism.

and if there's several types of satanism, why can't there be several types of black metal?



okay, what ever... from now on we can call:

naturalistic bm = green metal
Nsbm bm = white metal
Pagan bm = lightgreen metal
suicidal bm = grey metal
melanchol bm = greyellow metal
occult bm (that is not satanic, but worshipping of demons in other dimensions do accur... know of such poor guy) = brown metal

Hehe, i completely agree with you on this one!



There are several types of satanism (which can be presented thru music in several ways!) and there are several types of black metal.
I'm just saying that there is a point where the music stops being black metal and starts being music that sounds like black metal, if you catch my drift. All of this is, of course, highly subjective (up to a certain point).

But i believe that we've both gotten each others points by now, se let's leave it at this, shall we?

Misha, I know you have a more advanced taste in music than me (arguably of course) but Jeez, I have no idea how you could love a genre of music so much then just fuck it off when discovering a new one you love.

okay, Jürgen.




well, i think Misha has a genetic error. When he finds something new he gets greedy and wont stop absorbing the genre untill it's completely drained.

After black metal he moved onto post-rock - now post-rock can "fuck off", but (weirdo) jazz, drum and bass thingy thingy and noise is THE thing. It will be interesting to see which genre he will be listening in a year

I do, however, still believe Mies and I are craving for the same kind of stuff, almost, not necessarily music genres as such.. but expressive art. He just happen to have that genetic error, you see, so he's lightyears ahead of me.

Don't worry, I still listen to metal occasionally, and the same goes for post-rock and free-jazz. I just watch them from a distance, the names that really mean something to me, like Thy Catafalque, Drudkh or Mystic Forest. I'm checking out music all the time, I don't want to limit myself to one genre, and therefore I like music that doesn't limit itself to one genre. I'll be damned if I don't the new Burzum, though.

http://download.yousendit.com/E9F450661C899ACC

After trying to read all the arguments on the diff between bm and dm- im still confused, and frankly dont care- but i have a better idea now, if i would hear it what it is,

But i suppose it is more easy to understand the diff between bm and dm than trying to understand the diff between house and trance dance music- that now one can ever understand-

And Botswana is a country just North of South Africa East of Namibia and West of Zimbabwe-

And i do agree on the fact that it is quiet funny that they would call themselves black metal-maybe its for obvious reasons

WTF was that file?

Edit: I now see it was not new Burzum music.

Dude if you start to listen to death metal and black metal a lot, you will eventually start to hear the differences.. You will understand them all alone! At least that's what happened for me.