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But I don't really handle it that way. If a band puts out a good album, I buy it. Edguy could do rap for the next ten years, and if they came out with a great metal album in the eleventh year, I'd buy it.

It also depends on the circumstances. Even if I don't like a band's new direction, if they did it becuase that's where their artistic muse took them, I don't get mad, I just stop listening. Like Michael Kiske. Lord knows he's not looking for commercial success, he's just wandered off the reservation and likes other things now. I wish he wouldn't lash out at metal fans, but then they've been lashing out at him for years.

But Metallica.. Well, if you're going to sell out, make sure you do it right. They've made millions. In ten more years they'll probably be totally gone with no loyal fan base, but they'll be able to retire anyway.

The last point I'd like to make is one I've made before on these forums. Are you grateful for Master of Puppets and Ride the Lightning? If so, be happy for them making their millions. They deserve it. If Edguy or Nightwish make it big in the US and change their sound to something crappy as a result, I'll still have Once and Hellfire Club and I'll be glad they live in Beverly Hills mansions now. They deserve it.

99% of people agree that metallica sucks since black album, and in flames goes to hell with soundtrack to your escape, but...how come these bands are still great live? i mean u can go to the show and metallica is playing their old great shit, maybe one new song, when i saw in flames 3 months ago, they mostly played songs from colony,clayman,whoracle, reroute to remain and jester race plus one new song, no matter it was a stye 2004 tour...i mean, some people think they sucked with reroute, but i love that cd and maybe im gonna like stye later on, but im sure its not gonna be like colony or whoracle, it cant be, but still, when i saw them live, i enjoyed that whole show and they were f-ing great...my question is why are they doing that? making music for masses, going mainstream, selling hundred thousand cds, but when it comes to live show, they still know whats their best stuff? wtf is going on? are we gonna see other bands doing same bullshit just to make money? first cd i've heard from in flames was reroute and i love it, then i got other cds and i was blown away by them, so im sure going mainstream helps those bands to get more people to listen to them, but still who cares? ;) last soilwork cd was great, but again what is it compared to chainheart machine, and thats why im scared of what is that new cd gonna be like...btw ben, i have some t-shirts, one of them is in flames, and im not gonna throw it out, because there is a band on the back and cover of whoracle on front side of it, and i dont know anybody who would say that cd sucks :-) probably thats the only way to buy them, with name of cd or year on it because nobody knows whats gonna happen next, no matter how great some band are right now...

I don't see what was the point of this story. I think you are being ridiculously stupid for selling old CDs that you loved just because later ones sucked. And the title is misleading--band loyalty is when you buy everything you can by that band no matter how bad it is.

As for me I hate Metallica, only got one CD by them and I am not even that impressed by their first 4 albums (not counting Kill'em All which I like because it has different style), maybe it is because I am a Megadeth fan, I dunno.

If you buy used CDs, you're not going to give the band any money either.

I agree with the article, I kind of feel dirty when I listen to a band that I loved but they are sell-outs now, I hate to be compared with the crowd that listens to the new sell-out music a band does, for example, I loved Cradle of Filth, but after Midian everything just sucked, I can still listen to the old Cradle and enjoy it, but I don't wan't to be identified with the band anymore, I was at the concert last week looking at all the poser kids and just felt stupid there, I mean they where going nuts with Damnation and a Day songs but when they played stuff like The Forest Whispers my Name, they were clueless. It sucked.

Kamo,

I think maybe the reason they play the older stuff live is that they want to maintain some credibility with their old fans. Heres a heads up though, In Flames have said that after that show in LA that Artifacts of the Black Rain, Moonshield and Jotun are now retired and you'll probably never hear them live again. Guess they realized over half the crowd doesnt even know those songs.

Ben

then do like me... don't wear metal shirts ah ah ah

Jack, if I didnt wear metal shirts then I would be walking around shirtless and I dont think people would enjoy that. Band shirts and blue jeans ARE my wardrobe.


Ben

I must say that, I personally, couldn't see any sense in what you wrote in that editorial.

Seriously, everybody can listen to what they like and I (along side many other people i know) will respect it as long as they just doesn't listen to it because its hip, or its the trend in a curtain group of people to become their friends, or if they only listens to it because of the image that follows it... and i'm sad to say Ben, but you kind of fit into that category in my head along side these 13 year olds who wear black makeup and Evanescens shirts, and who don't even own a single cd by the band and only have mp3's from kazaa. Simply because you gave/give in to mass mentallity like many many people I know where its just the MTV Top 20 that dictates their current taste.

I mean, when it comes to the point of giving you physical uncomfortness just because of what people might think of you then its pretty extreme...

I mean, im not ashamed to say that I'm only 16 years old, and like Enya as well as I like Dark Tranquillity. And that I like to listen to Jean Sibelius as well as Entombed. And new In Flames as well as old In Flames (even though the older kicks the newers ass multiple times, i just like it in another way)

Thats also why I always say that I don't admire bands or musicians, or en general persons, but the music in it self. Don't know if I'm expressing myself clear enough since this is a foreign language to me.

And I was quite surprised by this because I enjoy and agree in most of your reviews and all other viewpoints...

What I got out of that editorial is that Ben agrees with you, and that he recognizes it as a problem he has. Which I can relate to. I'm pretty much the same way.

Those poser kids produce an image of themselves that is unlike what they really are; that's what makes them a poser. They'll listen to a band if it seems dark or scary because that's how they want to be portrayed, but God forbid they get caught listening to pop or something that will bring their reputation down.

The way I interpreted the review, Ben saw similar patterns in his own behavior, like I know a lot of us do. I find it hard to admit I like a band if it will lower my "metal cred." But that's making a sacrifice of myself for a reputation, so what makes that any better than the posers?

I really liked that editorial, BTW.

Crash -

Obviously you don't know anything about ben. Ben grew up in Midland Texas, the home of George Bush. Midland has more private jets per capita than any city in the world and votes 86% republican. 3 out of 4 citizens are church goers and all the public schools up until senior high require uniforms. If you don't believe me look the town up on the internet. You'll gag.

There were a handful of kids in our high school of 4000 who wore their hair long and blasted metal. One of them was Ben...and everyone who didn't know him thought he was an idiot. Everyone who did respected him.

Ben doesn't have cable internet, doesn't download music, and doesn't have cable TV. He spends 200 dollars a month on CD's and at least a thousand dollars a year on concert goings.

I promise you he doesn't care what other people think.

BLUE jeans?

Heres a band that I am the only one I know out of my friends that I like, Journey. Yes that's right the band that does "Dont Stop Believing" "Seperate Ways" "Wheel in the SKy" and a million sappy ballads. I dont give a shit that all my friends (who are 90% into black / death metal and grindcore. I stick out like a sore thumb when I wear my Edguy "Theater of SALVATION" longsleeve when everyone else has Marduk, Destruction, Bathory, Dissection, and Ulver *Nattens Madrigal btw* shirts on) think Journey is the pussiest band ever to play music, I love them. The reason I would gladly blast the corniest Journey ballad (hell, they even played All the Way on the music station at a grocery store here! How unmetal is that?!) than Metallica in public is because to me, Journey never took a shit on their fans like Metallica did. I would rather have people go "Oh man that guys such a pussy 80's cock rock douche" than have them go "Yea dude, Metallica rawks, you dig them too?" It's just a matter of personal principle.

As Adam said, hell he went to high school with me and he knows this, but my first two years, 9th and 10th grade, I WAS that stereotypical bitter metalhead. Then in 11th and my Sr. year I started to not be such a dick and made tons of friends with everyone (except for the goths and most of the stoners thought I was a poser anyways cos I listened to "faggy Halford rock" ), I would even go so far as to say I was the most popular person in my class. It wasnt cos of an image change or changing my music, I still wore the same thing I had been for years and still do, band shirt and blue jeans, the only addition to my wardrobe was a pair of Harley Boots. I still sported the Maiden, the Edguy, the Stratovarius, the Iced Earth, and Blind Guardian to name but a few shirts all the time. You'll be hard pressed to find me in "normal" clothes, ie Abercrombie stuff or collared shirts. I was known as "BooooZ", the guy with the long hair that listened to metal.

Im wondering where you got the impression that I never buy cds. I have almost nine hundred now plus about a half dozen boxsets and close to thirty metal DVDs (although my JOURNEY and DEF LEPPARD DVDS might be up for metal debate) as well as probably a hundred band shirts and I even have an Angra "Rebirth" denim jacket that I made. I support the bands I like, and I dont whine like a girl when hard to find cds are expensive. Just on bands like Jaded Heart and Pretty Maids alone Ive spent hundreds, and I do mean hundreds, on them (avg of 22 a cd) because here they are so hard to find but you know what? I like them so I bought them and they are some of the best purchases I have made. I've even rebought more cds than most people own, when Priest reissued their catalog in 2001, the Blind Guardian live when I left it at a friends house (he lives halfway across the US thats why I rebought it, it wasnt like I left it at a house around the block), Heavenlys debut when I thought I lost it, the American Version of HateCrew DeathRoll simply so I could burn it (the Finnish version is copy protected), the LTD edit of Inner Circle, hell, tons. I dont mean to sound like Im such rich bastard because Im not, I havent had a girlfriend in awhile so thats freed my wallet up as well as I dont pump thousands into my car trying to "pimp it out", I just love metal and thats what I buy.

As for admiring musicians, I still admire their talent and their skill but I am not a fanboy anymore. That realization hit me right on when I was at Hooters with Wuthering Heights in Atlanta, we were all talking just like we were all friends, Andreas was asking me about what I'm reviewing next on Metalreviews, Yan was talking about his band Avian, Jonah and Morten were shooting the shit and goofing off and Patrik and Erik were enjoying their meal and beer with the occasional word here and there (they were much more talkative at the hotel though, I think then they were just starving). I dont get gushy anymore, unlike when I met Kai two years ago if I ran into him again I'd just say "whats up man" then start talking to him about how I'd like to bang the hot chick walking across the street. The reason I still have this "admiration" is because I respect their talent of writing these songs as well as playing them and after I know them, as people.

Ben

Hey Ben,

I had to reply to your editorial because it seems the signs were pointing for me to reply. creepy

I was at one of my girlfriend's friends last night and was listening to the vocal diharrea coming out Mr. Ulrich's mouth on Musique Plus during the two day Metallica marathon. As i sat there, i began having flash backs of my cousin handing me the first metal album i ever heard. i was in the third grade and feeling i got was absolutely euphoric. then i started posing myself the same intrinsic/philosphical questions you adress in your editorial (beer and metal gets me thinking). so the next day, today, right now, i was watching the countdown to the second Montreal Metallica show when i decided to read you editorial. with the "nothing else matters" video playing in the background and reading your editorial i began to get a sinking feeling because i was being reminded that of the major reasons i turned to metal have become a product. a product that continues to evolve into what the market will buy.

In the interview Ulrich talks about the heat the band's been getting about their evolutionary direction, and he says "we aren;t sell outs because we are doing what we like. sellouts change into what they don't want to be and do what they don;t want to do". To this i say fine, but stop masking your desire to be continually worshipped and build RRSP's with some facade that you're still in it for th music, and just end your career on a high. stop the stupid movies, "soul confessions", crappy merchandise, over-priced concerts, law suits and all that shit and be true to the fans and the music rather than that materialistic/unimportant things.

anyways i'm not saying anything that hasn't been said before or that i can change, so all iwanted to say is that great editorial and rock on brother!

thank god i still have maiden

Jason

?!

Man that sucks big time, those guys dissapoint their real fans more and more just to please the mall-core kiddies. Fuck.

Aaaaah, I see. I must have gotten something wrong. I thought that it was the fact that it was an "untrue" band that made you feel digusted by listening to it. Now I see you only feel "dirty" when it is a band that treats their fans like shit, regardless of how "true" they are.
Ok, got that sorted out.




Oh, hehe, I didn't mean that either. I didn't mean that you only download mp3's and never buy any albums, I just compared you to the before mentioned 13 year old in Evanesense shirts. I ment that that fictional stereotype only downloaded mp3, not you.
But i must say I'm pretty jealous of you having so much money to spend on albums! Damn, if I only had that kind of money.




Cool story.
I have never met them even though they are from my home country. But I can follow you on that acount, I also like these kind of stories that proves that metal is the genre with the coolest people. Down to earth, and love their fans as much as their fans love them.

Far From The Madding Crowd!

Well, I guess that's what the reviews are for - so we are warned in advance that a band is changing for the worse. To this day I have not bought or heard St.Anger, Reroute to Remain, Figure Number Five or any similiar CD. I thus remain untarnished and can fully enjoy their back catalog.

Before you then accuse me of being close-minded, realize that I have limited funds and time, and there are so many other better bands out there that deserve my support.

Countless amazing bands out there but so little time and money, I hate that!

Journey rules! Or ruled actually.