Metal Reviews

I agree, I find most thrash very boring indeed. I think that only a few people can be bothered finding the music that interests them, as it is quite a lot of work, going online, finding a website, talking to the people there when you could just switch on your radio. I still think, however, that not all "kids" are as superficial as you paint them.

i say "kids" because that is who i see listening to this type of music. it isnt for people who are experienced listeners. It is a skill to listen to good music and to be able to judge what is good and bad. A skill that develops over time. It is a lot of work that these "kids: havent put in. Generally, i find they dont want to put the time in. They are satisfied until the next wave of shit comes through. The fan bas eof metalcore will not stick by metal once the current crop is gone.

I think Zad hit the nail on the head here. Discovering underground bands is probably easier now than it ever was before thanks to the internet. But there are still a lot of people that just don't have the incentive or time to seek them out. So, when listening to music, they stick to music that's easy to find.

And for the record, I think In Flames' more mainstream sound started already back on Colony with Ordinary Story and Anders' more frequent use of clean vocals.

I for one never really thought In Flames were good, their first album was interesting but the production sucked and the rest of their stuff is just guitar harmonies with crappy everything else.

This is a ridiculous statement. I listen to a ton of bands that most members here have deemed "bad" and I will not allow this statement that you have just made describe me and my tastes. I've put in almost 20 years to my obsession with music and I don't care if it's mainstream, underground or considered mallcore, or whatever. If I like it, I will listen to it and admit so.

I don't need someone generalizing me because kids are being kids. That doesn't define a music fan. I've already been accused once on this board of listening to mainstream bands just so I can argue, which is ridiculous. This post is about as ridiculous. You don't like this kind of music, that is perfectly fine, but that's the only thing that has relevance. It's your opinion, your tastes, but it neither makes any band good or bad. Like I've said, I think Britney Spears is GOOD for what she does, I don't like it one bit, but I'm not so close-minded to says it's bad music in general. That's impossible for me to determine, impossible for anyone to determine especially when personal TASTE dictates whether something is good or bad for that person. Not something you say or anyone says.

Opinion is opinion, but what you just said is flat out wrong. I would suggest that you also haven't put in a lot of work when it comes to music.

I'm gonna have to agree with Eyesore here: Having an opinion is not a skill

New dudester: I got into metal via Slipknot's Vol. 3. Now I listen to Brutal Truth, God Is An Astronaut, Larval, Godflesh, and Emperor... sometimes all at once.

So... in short, fuck off. Metalcore bands are an excellent gateway and there are some actually good bands out there. Sure, loads of them are mainstream ass-crap, but what do you think death metal is like? Thousands of repetitive bludgeoning hammersmash bands that write 564225398247623478230 songs in which everything is the same... and the innovative ones that are worth listening to, or the ones with awesome head-pumping riffs that kill your neck like you're a squirrel falling out a tree.

The only reason people are so hard on metalcore as opposed to death metal is because metalcore is popular. There's plenty of good metalcore bands, just a lotta shit to sift through before you get to them. But it's the same with any genre.

I dunno, I don't think of them as a 'gateway.' I was already into what I favor today. My beginnings were with 'mainstream' thrash and obvious grind favorites like Napalm Death and Carcass. I had a stint with metalcore a few years back, though it was through the melodic death scene. Got into In Flames, Soilwork, etc, prolly because of their more accessable nature. Dead to Fall's Everything I Touch Falls to Pieces was a band I figured for just another in that category. Discovering otherwise, I delved into experimentation with the metalcore/hxc scene, exploring the lot of bands that mirrored Dead to Fall's style. My personal experience showed me that "improvement" in the metalcore scene usually was a way of saying a band had gravitated to a more hxc style. I generally can't stand that style, a matter of preference, so I tend to avoid anything related to the word "Core" that isn't a form of Grind... UNLESS I'm under the strong recommendation of someone whose taste I trust. Still, it's a rare occasion. I digress. Personally, I like to think of good metalcore and good nu-metal as an alternative to the likes of my Metal's aura. Nu/metalcore carries a different feeling. Like music that's fun for social events. (For me) It really is an alternative. ("True") Metal was really what stuck with me all along. At the same time, I know Dave Matthews fans who had affairs with Cannibal Corpse at what they described as more naive days. It's funny how it works. You can say metalcore fan's are fags who don't know metal, but maybe it's because they don't WANT to know metal. You enjoy what you enjoy, and always for different reasons. Likewise, I don't think you can say metalcore is hated only because it's popular. All and all, I think the genre gets an unfair rap, but that can't be helped now.

There's no arguement here, I just felt like babbling on the topic. Quoted you, Aaron, because you said some things that I felt were relevant to my story, and also because I wanted to feel like part of the discussion, rather than have my post ignored for not being in the string of posts within the debate.

I think we should separate this in two ways. The mallcore kidz who think Trivium is the shiz and people who get interested in metal and start with mu metal and metalcore which are obviously the easiest gateway then on to discovering the other real metal genres. Most of us probably fall into the latter category. All the post I've made in this thread are about the former. That's why Zad kept saying "you're generalizing" to me. We should distinguish the two.

Thee was no nu-metal or metalcore when I started, I started with Metallica, Slayer, Sepultura then somebody bought me an Emperor cd for my 14th birthday and here I am today. I'm not saying this to say"omgz I'm krieg.1111" I'm saying that if nu metal and mallcore didn't exist most of the kids who listen today would have to take my way and there would be more metal fans in the world.

Kathaarian siad it right. Maybe I was being too corrosive. I realize that people listen to whatever they want and that is fine. I know i, and all of us, listen to mostly music that isnt accepted at all. I wasnt attacking anyone on this board, i was just pointing out that the metalcore scene is very much an end to people who get in to that scene. I dont care what anyone else has seen and observed, i know many people who got into metalcore and stayed there even with exposure to different metal. I also categorize "bad music" as music that doesnt challenge me or elicit emotion. I realize that it is all a matter of taste, but dont tell me i havent put my time in and dont tell me i am closed minded. I give everything a chance, i just dont try and justify shit as good when i think it is shit. I find metalcore to be the epitome of commercialism in metal. And, like I pointed out before, in my thousands of cds there are quite a few metalcore albums that, at the time, i liked. This music just doesnt stick with me.

I think if nu-metal and metalcore didn't exist there would be a much smaller number of people listening to metal at all. Sure, some can start with Metallica (you) or Maiden (me), but in my case, it was completely by chance that I bought it. Each case is different, and overall I don't think we can say the majority get into it this way or that way. And, ultimately, more people listening to metal is a good thing, as it makes it more noticeable, even if there are people (like my parents) who think Ozzy is all there is to heavy metal.

"I think if nu-metal and metalcore didn't exist there would be a much smaller number of people listening to metal at all."

I think you're giving too much credit here. Ok, some people will have gotten into Metal through these two genres, but what about the years before they existed? Its not like Metal's popularity hs skyrocketed since Nu&Core came to the front.

The years before they existed, we had glam metal, which was getting people into it. The "real" stuff was all underground, and it would've been hard to find. The internet has probably been the biggest cause of people getting into underground, it certainly was for me at least!

i said the same thing earlier. i do agree with radagast in that metalcore and nu-metal hasnt actually increases the popularity of metal. We are all still the minority by miles and miles.

Not the real underground stuff, no. Yet is a person really special just because he listens to music others haven't heard of? How is that any different, say, than considering himself better because he's of a certain race? This elitism thing gets carried a bit too far, in my opinion. And obviously, I'm not calling anyone a Nazi, just interesting to think about...

I was just agreeing with the comparison of glam and metalcore in the roles that they play. I dont see how that is elitist. I actually dont try to force people to listen to anything i listen to because i know that music is a personal thing and every peice of music can affect people differently. I am not telling people what to listen too, because i really dont care. I just feel that while metalcore does have some good things to offer, it is just not in the same league as the major sub-genres. I feel that the reason behind it not being equal is the commercial aspect of it drags the music down. If a person listens to many forms of music (metal specifically) and still prefers metalcore then so be it. I have been to concerts of all genres and (metal and mainstream) and can feel a tangible difference in the attitude of the crowd at a metalcore show. Hell, my roommate is in a metalcore band and I have been to tons of his shows, and they have played with Chiamira and shadowsfall together. I had a good time and actually got into Shadows Fall for a while. It is just an observation, not a manifesto.

Oh, it wasn't aimed at you. And I agree, live metalcore shows seem to be about throwing yourselves about like an idiot. I'm more of the stand-and-watch-bemusedly school, not very easy from what I've heard of Lamb Of God live....

No offense taken then. I too am the watch the band play and enjoy the music guy. Mosh pits just arent for me. I understand why some people like them, but i like to not be struck in the side of the head by the elbow of some douche who might not even know the name of the band playing.

Agreed. If I want a fight, I'll insult a stranger in a pub.

This couldn't have come at a better time. I am glad to see the return of editorials, and I hope there will be more as it serves as a reminder that this site is run by real people who care about music, and is not just some place that churns out reviews each week.

The "in it for the money" debate has always interested me. One problem I see is there really is no working middle class when it comes to bands. You either make it big or slave away in obscurity. It's all or nothing in a sense. This has created the illusion that bands that are succsesful have cheated in some way by trading in artistic integrity for commercial success, commonly referred to as "selling out." But like Ben pointed out, raw talent just isn't enough to equal success. Alot of it depends on things like location, and luck.

My friend is in a metal band and they are incredible musicians, but they live in a small town in the middle of nowhere, so it's an uphill battle to find shows to play and get exposure, no matter how good they are. Just because a band is successful doen't mean they are without skill or only care about money, and by the same token, just because a band spends years circulating in the underground doesn't mean they are all about the music.

there are some interesting phenomenons that occur in all art forms from music to writing. People will like things that others like because of the herd mentality that they have. But it is just as foolish to dislike something because other DO like it. All too often I hear, "Well that music is for the mallcore kiddies so it sucks," This person might actully enjoy the music in question, but because they see these other people who are deemed unworthy liking it, they have to automatically hate that music now.

So metal bands tread a fine line. Part of the music's appeal is the sense that it's "underground" and most people aren't even aware of it's existence. However if some band starts to garner too much attention someone is bound to say, "Oh they went mainstream now they suck." Which is amusing since there is no metal mainstream. Sure at one time hair metal was all over MTV but as far as the here and now is concerned, the metal mainstream is a big myth. It simply does not exist. There are only varying degrees of popularity among unpopular genres.

The metalhead who bitches abou the current state of radio is probably the same guy who will stop buying albums from his favoirte band the second they get on the cover of a magazine. "sell out" is everyone's favorite insult because it is easy to accuse a band of betrayal when we as fans aren't held acountable in the same way. No one is going to say, "Man Jimmy used to go to all the shows no matter what, but now he's got a job, what a fucking sellout!"

In order for any band to get good they have to practice constantly, but how are they going to do that unless they are making money at it? I'm not saying we need to start seeing metal musician's in commercials all of a sudden but wouldn't it be nice if these guys could get just a sliver of the pie? On one hand there is this attidude among metal heads that anything popular sucks, but the bitch of it is, in order for any band to survive they have to achieve at least some level of popularity.