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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 2:58 am 
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Einherjar

Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2007 1:26 am
Posts: 2491
Sangre wrote:
I strongly dislike modern production and I hate remastered albums. It's incredibly rare that I can find an album released in recent years that has impressed me production-wise, it's all been negative as far as I'm concerned.

When I go through my album collection, I would say right around the mid 90s is when everything went sour. Plastic sounding drums and overkill amounts of compression is enough to really turn me off from modern music.

A lot of albums that are considered to have "weak" production I feel actually have strong production. I'm not talking about when black metal bands purposely sabotage the production, but I love hearing a nice organic production that is dynamic and lively, in which instruments stand out on their own rather than having everything super compressed sounding glued together in a wall of sound.


I've got bad news for everyone:

Tape compresses sound, Vinyl compresses sound, tubes compress sound. Anything analog does it basically other than solid state for the most part.

Your Outer, Middle and Inner ear compress sound.

Speakers compress sound, except it is called dampening in that context

It takes a shitload of compression to make a track even useful.

Not compressing sound in the mastering state loses a ton of headroom, introduces noise and causes bit-depth loss.

You can probably figure out that they are trying to take mixes that were meant to be heavily compressed naturally and using pro-tools to do it instead. The fact is on an older album you have to live with tape hiss and overall lean audio quality. This would not even be the case if people still purchased quality audio equipment. A valve pre-amp set to "saturation" will boost all the lows, compress them and add the low-harmonic distortion everyone got used to and was compensated for when those albums came out on their original medium.

Newer albums sound far better than anything ever recorded if they were done with quality in mind, which most metal albums are. What kind of "qualities" the sound has and were chosen is another issue.

_________________
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 12:37 am 
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Svartalfar

Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2012 2:52 am
Posts: 18
Adveser wrote:
Sangre wrote:
I strongly dislike modern production and I hate remastered albums. It's incredibly rare that I can find an album released in recent years that has impressed me production-wise, it's all been negative as far as I'm concerned.

When I go through my album collection, I would say right around the mid 90s is when everything went sour. Plastic sounding drums and overkill amounts of compression is enough to really turn me off from modern music.

A lot of albums that are considered to have "weak" production I feel actually have strong production. I'm not talking about when black metal bands purposely sabotage the production, but I love hearing a nice organic production that is dynamic and lively, in which instruments stand out on their own rather than having everything super compressed sounding glued together in a wall of sound.


I've got bad news for everyone:

Tape compresses sound, Vinyl compresses sound, tubes compress sound. Anything analog does it basically other than solid state for the most part.

Your Outer, Middle and Inner ear compress sound.

Speakers compress sound, except it is called dampening in that context

It takes a shitload of compression to make a track even useful.

Not compressing sound in the mastering state loses a ton of headroom, introduces noise and causes bit-depth loss.

You can probably figure out that they are trying to take mixes that were meant to be heavily compressed naturally and using pro-tools to do it instead. The fact is on an older album you have to live with tape hiss and overall lean audio quality. This would not even be the case if people still purchased quality audio equipment. A valve pre-amp set to "saturation" will boost all the lows, compress them and add the low-harmonic distortion everyone got used to and was compensated for when those albums came out on their original medium.

Newer albums sound far better than anything ever recorded if they were done with quality in mind, which most metal albums are. What kind of "qualities" the sound has and were chosen is another issue.


You're completely missing the point. I don't think anyone is saying compression is bad because it is necessary, but compressing beyond reason is absolutely absurd and that is the problem. There is no reason to compress the audio as much as it has been in recent years.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 5:15 am 
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Einherjar
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Joined: Fri Apr 01, 2005 12:05 am
Posts: 2626
Location: The Mushroom Kingdom
Sangre wrote:
Adveser wrote:
Sangre wrote:
I strongly dislike modern production and I hate remastered albums. It's incredibly rare that I can find an album released in recent years that has impressed me production-wise, it's all been negative as far as I'm concerned.

When I go through my album collection, I would say right around the mid 90s is when everything went sour. Plastic sounding drums and overkill amounts of compression is enough to really turn me off from modern music.

A lot of albums that are considered to have "weak" production I feel actually have strong production. I'm not talking about when black metal bands purposely sabotage the production, but I love hearing a nice organic production that is dynamic and lively, in which instruments stand out on their own rather than having everything super compressed sounding glued together in a wall of sound.


I've got bad news for everyone:

Tape compresses sound, Vinyl compresses sound, tubes compress sound. Anything analog does it basically other than solid state for the most part.

Your Outer, Middle and Inner ear compress sound.

Speakers compress sound, except it is called dampening in that context

It takes a shitload of compression to make a track even useful.

Not compressing sound in the mastering state loses a ton of headroom, introduces noise and causes bit-depth loss.

You can probably figure out that they are trying to take mixes that were meant to be heavily compressed naturally and using pro-tools to do it instead. The fact is on an older album you have to live with tape hiss and overall lean audio quality. This would not even be the case if people still purchased quality audio equipment. A valve pre-amp set to "saturation" will boost all the lows, compress them and add the low-harmonic distortion everyone got used to and was compensated for when those albums came out on their original medium.

Newer albums sound far better than anything ever recorded if they were done with quality in mind, which most metal albums are. What kind of "qualities" the sound has and were chosen is another issue.


You're completely missing the point. I don't think anyone is saying compression is bad because it is necessary, but compressing beyond reason is absolutely absurd and that is the problem. There is no reason to compress the audio as much as it has been in recent years.


Don't mind him, he's crazy! :D


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 5:21 am 
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Einherjar
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Joined: Fri Apr 01, 2005 12:05 am
Posts: 2626
Location: The Mushroom Kingdom
Btw, I agree with you Sangre. We need more organic production nowadays. For example, think of Lost Horizon. They released two of the best albums in the Metal history but, I have always felt that the production is not the adequate, especially in the second album. The guitar is too buried in the mix. Another band suffering the same problem is Rhapsody (of Fire).

Power Metal productions that I like:

Riot - Thundersteel
Scanner - Hypertrace
Helloween - Walls of Jericho, Keepers I & II

And an excellent album with a bad but fitting production is Edguy's Vain Glory Opera. I just love that warm sound.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 10:43 am 
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Einherjar

Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2007 1:26 am
Posts: 2491
The guitar isn't buried in the mix. It's just a thin, tinny guitar tone. That's not a production problem, that's the guitarists' fault. I think modern power metal albums sound terrific and are not overcompressed at all compared to how albums of the past were handled. Everything was mixed thin back then so the productions seemed more airy and spacious than they were. At least now, you get all the instruments in full quality instead of some notched away tone that is nothing like how instruments sound.

_________________
I love the Queen.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 6:07 pm 
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Metal King
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Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2012 11:47 pm
Posts: 893
Location: new jersey
Regular people would listen to a album like Transylvanian hunger and say what is this shit. But it's the necro production that provides that disconnected feeling in my opinion. I'm by no means a black metal expert but when you hear a black metal album with crisp production it kind of takes away from the atmosphere that could of been created. But on the other hand bands today that try to go necro just dont sound like the early second wave stuff. It sounds forced. But like I said I'm no expert.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 12:04 am 
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Metal Servant
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Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2012 10:31 pm
Posts: 142
Location: Ohio, USA
I like the raw feel from early demos such as on Morbid Angel - Abominations of Desolation, but also like the more polished re-recordings of the songs on the later albums.


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