Metal Reviews

No, I used a mangled valefor quote to prove my point.

I do get you point. But i think you're exaggerating a lot. An example: When Brazil won the worldcup in 2002, it's my guess that there was a lot of brazillians who were proud of their contry/ nationality. But that doesn't make them nazies, does it? I don't think a little proudness hurts anyone, as long you don't descriminate others. And if you do regard proud people to be or related to nazies, then i'm surrounded by nazies, both Danes, Americans, Italiens, Jews, christians, Aboriginals etc. This is indeed very scary :roll:

well, next time ill think before i throw my schoolyard mentality around, someone might throw there fucking education back at me :roll:
you said you liked some NSBM lyrics, so i responded with some stupid nazi joke ones to highlight the fact that i think theyre silly and stupid, you say that im immature. well then, i have to say that i dont give a shit. i may have a "schoolyard mentality", but then again im only 15...
i hate racism.
i hate lyrics about racism.
therefore my post may have seemed immature, but it was just me saying that i FUCKING HATE racism in my own, demented little way.

So what about if you are German and you are proud of the Holocaust or you are American and proud of dropping atomic bombs on Japan?

ha ha, very funny :roll: read my post again. I do think i wrote "... as long you don't descrimanate other", and i think both of your examples were pretty discriminating.

well technically you aren't descriminating, you are simply proud of all the actions that your country/government does.

I didn't quite said that.
But anyway, in your example you are mostly talking about love, not pride, and that's a completely different thing. Even people that are very disapointed with their own country and are not very proud of it most of the time will be happy if their representative wins some football match, because they still love their country.
One of the differences between love and pride is that love doesn't need reason. Pride does. And if you are determined to take pride in your nation, just because you belong to it, then you will take equal pride in any nation you happen to belong to (if you could somehow reborn in another nation). Nations are not identical, but thinking this way you would be just as proud to be a russian as to be an etiopian, to be an italian as to be a mongol, to be a jew as to be a german. The truth is that your source of pride is not the nation in itself, but your desire to take pride in it. And that's most unreasonable.

Edit: When I say "you" I don't mean you, Astaroth I just hate to use that impersonal english "one".
Btw, metalhead, I'm now pretty sure of what I suspected for some time: you're the smartest 15 year old I've ever "met". ;)

he he, then you're proud of an descriminating act... that's the same to me. Hejdå

It's not only about the demographic side. I take pride for when my fathers took arm against the english oppressor as much as i take pride for the beautifull landscape of my province, hills and fjord, majestic forest, cold winters and magnificent fall. For me pride is more about nature but i understand that some guy in norway can be very proud of his forefather because lets face it...viking were really fucking cool!

oki, that's good

Same here, pride over ones nation is ridiculous if it's in bonding through the win of a footballgame. The only pride I take in my forefathers is that I'm some kind of weird mix, which makes me feel unique. There are not a lot of people that look allike. Patriotism is a strange phenominon, it's basicly a sort of "mother" feeling you have with the lands you are born in. Still, to claim any law over it is nonsane, anyone has the right to live anywhere he wants if the land is not someone's property, and you really have to buy it to achieve that.

Nazism isn't about nationalistic pride, it's about hatred of others. It's perfectly possible to be a German patriot without being a Nazi, just as it's perfectly possible to be an American patriot while despising some of the actions of the government. It's when you start hating others under the guise of "national pride" that it crosses the line into racism.

actually, i learned a definition of nazism: a (goverment+ military) reign based on ultra-nationalistic and intolerable beliefs

ah, come on!! it was just a lame example. I wasn't talking about a fanatic pride grounded solely in footballgames, if it was it would indeed be ridiculous.

another lame example:

would you guy's think it would be stupid and ridiculous too if a father told his son how proud he was of him because he got good grades in school.

Edit: I'm a Metal Fighter now :roll:

It's the intolerance that's key. As I said, it doesn't matter how much you love your own country, as long as it doesn't cross the line into hatred of others.

I maybe wrong, but I think a patriot is someone who simply loves his country, for good or bad, and a nationalist is someone who's idealizing his country and places it above all other countries. If that's true, then from nationalism and this idealizing there are few steps to despise for others, then hate.

I think the main difference between patriotism and nationalism is this:

Patriotism is an emotional thing whereby you have that kind of "mother" feeling towards your country that Gast identified. If you love your royal family, and support your national sports teams then you are being patriotic.

Nationalism is much more of a political outlook. The major nationalist political group in Britain is the British National Party. (BNP) They believe in putting the needs of this country before that of any others. That means rejected all immigrants and asylum seekers, the gradual deportation of non-whites living here, cancelation of aid to third world countries, withdrawal from the european union etc etc.

Politically speaking, racism is what happens when nationalism is taken too far, like with the BNP, or the Nazi's.

Anyway, just thought I'd throw in my two cents.

this has been mentioned already, but i guess ill say it anyway.

why ban music that contains anti-jew/pro-aryan messages but at the same time allow music that openly asks for christians to be slaughtered?

now im neither jewish nor christian so i dont really give a shit, but speaking in terms of equality, we cant just ban one tiny segment and ignore the rest.

Because the history of the two groups is not equal. There has never been an event that involved the slaughter of 6 million Christians. Thus, talking about Christian slaughter is an utterly hypothetical (and, quite frankly, nearly impossible) situation, while talking about the slaughter of Jews harkens back to a time in fairly recent history (not to mention the persecution by the Roman government, the rampant and violent anti-Semitism during the Middle Ages, the Crusades, etc.). Is it "fair"? Is it "equal"? No. But neither is life.
Personally, I can't abide NSBM, and refuse to play it on my radio show. I won't try to stop other people from listening to it on their own, though if anyone asks me my opinion of it, I won't mince words.

As for patriotism vs. nationalism, I went to the dictionary:
patriotism: love of country and willingness to sacrifice for it

nationalism: 1. Devotion to the interests or culture of one's nation.
2. The belief that nations will benefit from acting independently rather than collectively, emphasizing national rather than international goals.
3. Aspirations for national independence in a country under foreign domination.

So nationalism does have political overtones, though it lends itself more readily to isolationism than aggression. I maintain my view that it's possible to be nationalistic without embracing supremacist or racist ideals.

Probably because the anti-jew people are much more serious about their preachings than the anti-christians. I consider the "slaughter the christians" types of lyrics just a rebellion thing, nothing serious. Remember that most people that sing those lyrics have christian mothers, fathers, sisters or whatevers, they can't really be serious. Racists, on the other hand, are quite serious about their ideas. There hasn't been a slaughter of christians in modern times (or at least in modern western world), but 60 years ago there was a holocaust.
Nazi ideology is really dangerous, how many genocides does it take for people to understand this?

Edit: CU beat me to it. :(