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Who will/would you pick?
Obama 74%  74%  [ 29 ]
Hilary 13%  13%  [ 5 ]
McCain 13%  13%  [ 5 ]
Total votes : 39
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 1:31 am 
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traptunderice wrote:
cry of the banshee wrote:
I'm not stating that it's a genetic difference between the races that is responsible for the problems (not saying it isn't, either) rather a difference in mindset, culture, attitude towards themselves and the world around them. The idea has been planted in the black community's head that the are entitled to some kind of compensation, and that their failures are always the result of "racism", ergo, they are expecting something to be given them for nothing and they bear no personal responsibility for their own fate.
This is the mantra of their leaders, the politicians, and peers.
My assertion is that a bit of manning up and taking responsibility and control of their own lives, instead of dwelling on the past, would go a long way towards improving their collective lot.
Money isn't the answer; personal responsibility is.
I think this is a sweeping generalization. It may be apparent in the media wiht the likes of Sharpton but everyday blacks don't think this way. Despite the fact that in everyday life people can be and often are racist. Just because a group of black kids are hanging out; they're expected to be rowdy and loud whether they are or not. Black teens are just as loud as white teens. Yet they're perceived differently due to their skin color. And honestly most young black people I know expect this discrimination and they just simply ignore it and don't let it phase how they act.

Quote:
Poverty doesn't create the crime, ok I can understand theft, but what about assault, murder, rape and so on? How does poverty create that?
If you're frustrated about your status you're more likely to vent it out. Domestic violence can often be pinpointed to trying to establish control or substance abuse. Those two things result out of a loss of control or status.

An attitude approving of assault, murder and rape results from a mentality where a person can't legitimately create a positive status for themselves so they create a status by kicking a white guy's ass or raping a chick or murdering and robbing a local store. This is basic strain theory. Lives are put under stress and crime is an outward attempt to create meaning.

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Funny that you mention Egypt, though, because it was built by slaves...
Africans enslaving Africans just like whites enslaved whites through the use of indentured servants or feudalism. Yeah? Back in the 1900s, they use to say Egypt was built by African slaves enslaved by Greeks yet that has been debunked. Just because Egypt was built on slavery doesn't mean we should ignore its achievements; instead, we should see that it didn't have to rely on slaves. Hasn't it been proven recently the pyramids weren't built by slaves?
[/quote]

Again, 68% of those in poverty are white, 27% are black... why are we not seeing violent crime stats that reflect those numbers?

I've never heard anything about Egypt not being built by slaves.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 1:36 am 
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traptunderice wrote:
Gang violence is an example of creating a status not based on income which the poor turn to. There has been studies like this questioning people in these types of situation. One example asked a guy why he stabbed someone he was stealing. He said the guy resisted, saw his face and he couldn't just let go of that money or let that guy live because of the environment he surrounded himself with. People would've kicked his ass, stabbed him, robbed him if he had not proven himself.

This isn't the right mentality but it results out of people trying to create a new status not based on income.


So let's just keep making excses, then, and in another 50 years we will be right where we are now.
Why don't poor whites create gangs as a form of status?
This is the whole problem; excuses, blame, all this is doing is perpetuating the problem... everybody else just tightens ther belt and does what needs to be done.
Why is this so hard to understand?


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 1:50 am 
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Whites are in gangs. Whites do lash out on each other. The fact that you don't see how whites lash out violently at people due to status frustration is as one-sided as the liberal media you're bashing. Every lower class white person I'm sure knows someone who has been arrested for or been a victim of domestic violence, no?

People are structurally neglected from rising up despite the few who make it a majority can't. It's been proven. Maybe the few are better than the rest but I refuse to believe that. Whites, blacks, or other races whatever are all barred from equal statuses in different ways. You can't just tighten your belt to overcome discrimination based on race, sexuality or income. If you're making next to nothing you can't save. You won't have a belt to tighten.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 2:08 am 
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Cheney has outwardly said he supported waterboarding. Does that make him a war criminal? Has he done this prior to just a day ago?


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 2:21 am 
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traptunderice wrote:
Cheney has outwardly said he supported waterboarding. Does that make him a war criminal? Has he done this prior to just a day ago?


He always has, no?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15433467/


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 2:28 am 
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Goat wrote:
traptunderice wrote:
Cheney has outwardly said he supported waterboarding. Does that make him a war criminal? Has he done this prior to just a day ago?


He always has, no?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15433467/
Well erm I'm not surprised.

So since there is a precedent of convicting Japanese from WWII for waterboarding can we convict the dick?


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 2:37 am 
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I'd suggest a US version of www.arrestblair.org except you guys have guns, and so on, and so forth... They all deserve what they're never going to get.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 2:45 am 
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Goat wrote:
I'd suggest a US version of www.arrestblair.org except you guys have guns, and so on, and so forth... They all deserve what they're never going to get.
That's awesome. too bad, Cheney would suck out their soul before they could come close enough to arrest him.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 3:01 am 
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traptunderice wrote:
Whites are in gangs. Whites do lash out on each other. The fact that you don't see how whites lash out violently at people due to status frustration is as one-sided as the liberal media you're bashing. Every lower class white person I'm sure knows someone who has been arrested for or been a victim of domestic violence, no?

People are structurally neglected from rising up despite the few who make it a majority can't. It's been proven. Maybe the few are better than the rest but I refuse to believe that. Whites, blacks, or other races whatever are all barred from equal statuses in different ways. You can't just tighten your belt to overcome discrimination based on race, sexuality or income. If you're making next to nothing you can't save. You won't have a belt to tighten.


Sure, but there is a glaring disparity in rate.
Again, the violent crime stats tell a different story.
But anyway, this is becoming circular.

The sad thing is the policy of excuse and blame will likely continue, and ya know what? Another generation will follow in their parents footsteps, ad infinitum, brcause, hey! Nothing their fault and they have no responsibility, whatsoever,it's up to YT to give us what we Let 'em go to hell for all I care, as long as they stay the hell away from me.want. And if he don't it's 'cuz "he ray-ciss". I don't give a damn.
The only thing that pisses me of that my hard earned money has to pay for ever more dead end programs that have produced nothing but failure. That money could be used for something worthwhile.
And, please spare me the sob routine; people come here with not much more than the clothes they have on and make it.
Why? because of two words: WORK ETHIC.
And I think that that is just about all I have to say about it.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 3:33 am 
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Work ethic in the West results out of the education you have. Public schools in the inner city do not provide or even encourage the growth of a work ethic. If you're against public schools, you're an idiot. As far as I know, charter schools provide no way of improving poor schools; all they seek to do is remove the wealthiest of the public schools to the wealthiest of school districts. I have firsthand experience with Cincinnati's public schools so I know firsthand how blacks and whites, more black than whites due to the demographics, aren't encouraged or expected to develop a work ethic. We have problems that don't arise out of race and we need to raise people out of poverty to get to the roots of problems.

Are not more and more blacks going to universities? This won't continue as more and more people can raise themselves out of poverty. I'm sorry your tax dollars don't go to what you approve of. It's the plight of living under a democracy. I only hope the plans you disapprove of were supplemented by a strong pushes for opportunity so you're money isn't wasted; I just see those doors as closing as they should be opening.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 5:29 am 
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traptunderice wrote:
Work ethic in the West results out of the education you have. Public schools in the inner city do not provide or even encourage the growth of a work ethic. If you're against public schools, you're an idiot. As far as I know, charter schools provide no way of improving poor schools; all they seek to do is remove the wealthiest of the public schools to the wealthiest of school districts. I have firsthand experience with Cincinnati's public schools so I know firsthand how blacks and whites, more black than whites due to the demographics, aren't encouraged or expected to develop a work ethic. We have problems that don't arise out of race and we need to raise people out of poverty to get to the roots of problems.

Are not more and more blacks going to universities? This won't continue as more and more people can raise themselves out of poverty. I'm sorry your tax dollars don't go to what you approve of. It's the plight of living under a democracy. I only hope the plans you disapprove of were supplemented by a strong pushes for opportunity so you're money isn't wasted; I just see those doors as closing as they should be opening.


Quote:
Work ethic in the West results out of the education you have.


That's a load of crap. Work ethic is something taught by your parents and something that is learned by observing cause and effect; I want something, I have to work for it. It's so fucking simple most children get it by the age of 10.


Oh I don't mind my tax dollars going to something that isn't a big black hole of failure.
If parents don't want their kids going to some shitty public, they ought to have a choice. When you have some of your own you'll have a right to speak of such things, until then, you don't.
Yep, blame everybody else for your failure, blahblahblah... if you think that that is the way to success, I have nothing more really to say to you. Get back to me in twenty years of more of the same old same old, I can guarn-fucking-tee you things will only worse.
Are you saying that blacks are incapable of succeeding on their own? Sure sounds like it, to me.
Nobody else seems to need to be told and shown what to do, now do they?

Anyway, we're really only wasting each others time at this point, we'll never see eye to eye, so howsabout we give it a rest, hmmm?


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 11:19 am 
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IMO race takes on a life of its own as an issue and feeds itself. Both in the shape of accusations and assumptions about racism, and in the ridiculing/downplaying of it as a genuine issue. Two sides of the same coin which contribute to eachother's continued existence.

Obviously I agree with trapt that poverty/inequality/deprivation in capitalist (and obv. non-capitalist societies too) is a self-perpetuating thing which very often can't be escaped through hard work and application. I do think this can be shown empirically.

Basically, this is always the "root cause" of these problems, IMO. Culture and mindset is a product, because people look for explanations (whether good explanations or not) for their situations- i.e. race, and then that explanation takes on a life of its own and becomes applicable to every scenario. It becomes a cultural way of thinking, which might perpetuate it, but didn't cause it in the first place.

Anyway, that's the best way I can express what I think on the subject, so I shall probably leave it at that (although no promises, clearly :P )


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 5:17 pm 
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Basically, the moral of the story is that COTB needs to listen to more Public Enemy.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 5:56 pm 
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And black people need to listen to more http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlKL_EpnSp8


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2010 2:52 pm 
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/nott ... 519681.stm

:sad:

Have we had the assisted suicide debate yet?


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2010 7:06 pm 
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Would there be anyone to debate against it?


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2010 8:19 pm 
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http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/fe ... s-lesbians

Good old US evangelicals, stirring up the hate as usual.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2010 12:07 am 
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Holy shit, Question Time is gripping tonight. A clearly working-class Middlesbrough audience, going for the panels' throats over the closure of the steel works. Roy Hattersley is an arrogant old sod, isn't he? Surprisingly loveable, though.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2010 9:27 am 
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Quote:
Colonel Gaddafi, the Libyan leader, has called for a jihad or armed struggle against Switzerland branding it an "infidel state".

He said Muslims everywhere had a duty to act against the country, which he claimed had been destroying mosques.

"Any Muslim in any part of the world who works with Switzerland is an apostate, is against (the Prophet) Mohammad, and God and the Koran," he told a meeting in the eastern Libyan city of Benghazi.

In his rambling address he added: "The masses of Muslims must go to all airports in the Islamic world and prevent any Swiss plane landing, to all harbours and prevent any Swiss ships docking, inspect all shops and markets to stop any Swiss goods being sold."

Libya's relations with Switzerland broke down in 2008 when one of Colonel Gaddafi's sons, Hannibal, was arrested in a Geneva hotel and charged with assaulting a member of his staff.

He was detained for two days before being released, but in protest Libya cut oil supplies to Switzerland, withdrew billions of dollars from Swiss bank accounts and arrested two Swiss businessmen working in the North African country.

Gaddafi told supporters the Swiss referendum last year, in which 57.5 per cent of voters called for a ban on the construction of minarets, proved it was an "infidel state".

The federal government had however urged voters to reject the vote, warning it would contravene religious freedom.

But Gaddafi said: "Let us fight against Switzerland, Zionism and foreign aggression."

The Libyan dictator, who has been in power since 1969, said what he was proposing was not terrorism and he condemned the work of al-Qaeda branding it a "kind of crime and a psychological disease".

He told the crowd: "There is a big difference between terrorism and jihad which is a right to armed struggle."

The Swiss Foreign Ministry refused to comment on his remarks.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... rland.html

He can fuck right off.

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I am not here, then, as the accused; I am here as the accuser of capitalism dripping with blood from head to foot.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2010 11:02 am 
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I can hear the Swiss war machine grinding inexorably into action from here!

Seriously, the man's a cock.


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