Metal Reviews

One more thing, as far as I know, just about every fucking opinion is speculation. So instead of people saying "in my opinion" it would be entirely appropriate to preface an opinion with "i'm just speculating." Both involve people taking the information available to form a thought. That hardly seems ground-breaking or as bad as you make it out to be.

So, let me rephrase. I'm just speculating, but I think this Helloween recording is a piece of shit because these old bastards ruined their old music so they could make more money off of assholes like you (Anus).

We are.

First off, I haven't even heard this album. The 30-second clips surely didn't blow me away, but I am very capable of stepping back and allowing artists to invoke their artistic FREEDOM without getting pissed off. And I don't need to justify anything, especially not someone else's work, which you seem so intent on doing.

The problem with you is that in this conversation, figuratively speaking, you're shouting while others are talking at a reasonable and logical level. That is, of course, because you want to be right, want to be heard above all others. There is no reasoning with you, even when presented with logical argument points.

The fact that you "haven't liked Helloween since Kiske left"—which was SEVENTEEN FUCKING YEARS AGO (caps means it's important)—and you're still fired up about what this band is doing nearly 10 albums later, says you're just a bitter, unreasonable man.

You may wish to contend that upbeat acoustic music, even pop, equates to commercialism (i.e. selling out), but it's entirely incorrect and completely speculative. Despite your protestations, you have nothing in which to back up this opinion because you present it as fact ("The reason this is not ok is the motivation behind it").

Now, you're allowed to be of the opinion that Helloween has sold out, but discussing the merits of such an opinion is absolutely pointless because you would never concede being wrong or even slightly off base. Like I said, a man that is so worked up over what someone does, after nearly 20 years of admittedly not liking them, is telling enough.

Why is Helloween even on your radar? Because they've taken classic songs and turned them into "top forty pop shit"? Why not just listen to the classics and not even give a shit what they've done? Seems logical to me. Do you get all pissed off at the decisions your ex-girlfriends make long after being in a relationship with them?

I'm always amazed that people online put so much effort into talking about what they don't like. Tell me, when was the last time you put this much time and energy into discussing something you do like? Can you find an example?

Goddamnit, you did it again, except this time it took you several paragraphs to say nothing worthwhile. You must have spent a lot of time thinking up all those statements, and then, again, not giving me a single good reason to support any of them.

Seems like I was pretty clear earlier, I'm not going to go through all my old posts, you can read them for yourself. I gave a lot of pretty good reasons as to why I thought this album was motivated by greed and why that type of thing is not good. You disagree, though I can't really tell why.

You're right, Kiske left the band 17 years ago. So why is the band rerecording 17 year old songs with a different singer in a more popular format? WHo are they trying to appeal to? The metal heads? My guess is no, the negative response the clips have drawn on this board alone is pretty good support for that contention.

I'm not terribly upset about this entire situation either. It's more sad than anything. European metal....well metal in general is becoming more commercialized every day. The slew of metal bands that are injecting modern pop influences into their music is good evidence of this. Helloween has been doing this for a while. Each successive release I feel has strayed further and further away from what the band originally stood for. Now I understand that this might be natural for a band to change over time, but this is a huge fucking change (the last record). This is a Def Leppad-esque change. What's next for Helloween, a country album? This re-recording is so far out of left field and so uncharacteristic of the band that one can't help but question their motives. That is all I've done, that is all I've ever claimed to do. I've never claimed to be right, or tell you that you're wrong.

So stop being such a bitch when people say they don't like something that you may like. That's life buddy, get over it.

Don't write so much next time. Just say this "I'm a whiny asshole who gets mad when people don't like things I like."

Can we lock this thread now? No one is discussing the topic anymore.

I have explained myself plenty. Acoustic pop music does not equate to commercialism.

And like I also said, I haven't heard this album, so suggesting I can't handle differing opinion is nonsense, as I have no opinion on this album yet. See, I don't base opinions off of 30 seconds.

You can't seem to grasp that this is a one-off thing. Did Helloween, two years after releasing a universally praised POWER METAL album, go acoustic pop for good? A one-time thing, just for fun. Deal with it, move on with your life. I am sure Helloween will return with a fine metal album in 2010 or 2011, praised by most, trashed by...well, people like you.

No, you have not explained yourself at all. Nothing you've said has had anything to do with the topic of the thread. You said acoustic music isnt pop....that's it. Mostly, everything you've said has been directed at me personally.

Also, what universally praised album are you talking about..Keepers II? That's the last album Helloween released that is a consensus winner. I don't know whether its a one off thing or not, but I can tell you, in my opinion their glory days are far far behind them. I don't need to deal with shit. I know they are a constant crap out, have been for years. However, because I value old Helloween so much, I will always listen to their new output, and give my opinion of it. So you're going to have to deal with it, hopefully you'll deal with it better than you dealt with my opinion of this recording. I doubt you will, so in 2011 I'll have another opinion, and then I'll be prepared to defend myself, not my opinion, from personal attacks from you because you can't seem to distinguish between subjective opinions and personal attacks.

Another thing, if the 30 second clips were so inadequate for you, then why did you feel the need to attack my opinion? You have just acknowledged that you lack sufficient information to be able to argue the point with me. For me the 30 second clips were totally enough for me to form an opinion. It was 30 second clips of music I don't enjoy...at all. Seems to me like you just keep proving me right. Now I know why you couldnt support any of your arguments. Because you have no argument. That is probably the worst thing about this whole debate. You don't have an opinion on the matter, you just tossed your two cents in because you wanted to disagree with me. That truly is the most disheartening thing about this. Next time I just won't even respond to your malicious little stupidities.

Those samples are fucking terrible. That said, I assume (and hope) this is a one-off bullshit thing for them. Gambling With The Devil was a brilliant power metal album and I expect some more great stuff from Helloween in the future.

This is what I mean. That statement is so ludicrous it's not even worth speaking with you. It's a categorically FASLE statement, not even a shred of truth to it. You're delusional.


You're a weird dude. I argued that a band—any band at all—putting out re-recordings of older tunes, in a more acoustic pop-oriented fashion, does not equate to selling out or going for mass commercial appeal. That opinion has NOTHING to do with these 30-second clips. Nothing at all.

You act like you have inside information and know for a fact what Helloween's motivation was here. You don't, of course. The more logical explanation is that the band is just doing something a bit different, like Bon Jovi did with This Left Feels Right. Now, surely Bon Jovi isn't the 80s rock band they once were, but they're not an acoustic band now, are they? They've put out two rock albums since This Left Feels Right, and they even did a country-tinged rock album in between. But again, still putting out the same sort of rock music they've been doing since the 90s, despite these one-off forays into different styles.

That's what it's like being a true artist, you know. You just try things, but most real artists come back to what they do best. So why can't Helloween do it from an artistic standpoint, huh? Why does there have to be some grand scheme of becoming a commercial success? Are you such a bitter and sad man that you just can't grasp this sort of thing?

And like I said, I don't need to hear this album to have a counter opinion to your so-call opinion. What I said is universally appropriate.

You lose.

And I'll ask again. When was the last time you put this much time and energy into discussing something you do like? Go on, Mr. Happy, find an example.

Categorically false? It's best if you not use phrases like that because it's clear that you don't know what it means. This is an example of a categorically false statement.

"Human beings can fly because they are born with wings."

That is a categorically false statement because it is impossible. For something to be categorically false, there can be absoutely no argument as to the falsity of the statement, for example because it is impossible.

So using the phrase "categorically false" in an opinion based statement, is as you said, ludicrous.

I never said that it was a fact that this record was money-motivated. Again, as I've said numerous times, it was an opinion. I then provided evidence as to why I had that particular opinion. You can't seem to get past this part so I'll spell it out again, in the same paragraph, so you can understand it. IN MY OPINION THIS RECORDING WAS DONE TO MAKE MONEY AND BE MORE COMMERCIAL. For my reasons, refer to all the posts you've read already. This is getting a little old, particularly because of how fucking thick you are.

And you can go on and on about the "true artist" bull shit. I don't think anyone buys that anymore. The second you put a price tag on your art, then you can't claim the "true artist" bull shit anymore because as we all know, you need money to live. In general, the more money you have, the better you live. Not necessarily true, but it does make life easier. For a band in the music industry, whose entirely livelihood depends on how much money they make off of people buying their records, the true artist argument is just a stinking heap of shit. So take that fanboy shit somewhere else.

And lets see, times where I have put this much energy into something I liked....hmm.

Refer to my posts about:

Satan, Nocturnal Rites, Helvetets Port, Agent Steel, Lost Horizon, etc, etc.

Just because you only read the posts where I talk about things that I don't like, doesnt mean that's all I talk about. Since you just want to disagree with me, you only seem to remember the negative ones, particularly about bands you are a hopeless fanboy for (Helloween).

So, I'm not going to say whether I win or lose, its kind of stupid and lame for the combatants to be able to declare themselves the winner. I also don't expect anyone else to have read our responses due to their length.

I'm done with this so save yourself the time of responding because it won't be read.....pretty much because I've had to write the same thing over and over again, in a pretty clear way, and you still havent gotten the basic point. Since I can't draw pictures in crayon and post them on the board, this is all likely to go right over your head again.

Senor Goat, please close this thread. Nothing can be accomplished here.

"Also, what universally praised album are you talking about..Keepers II? That's the last album Helloween released that is a consensus winner."

That is not an opinion. That is presented as fact, which is entirely false.


Maybe you should learn the definitions of and differences between fact and opinion. You seem confused.

Or in other words: "Help! Senor Goat! I'm losing the debate!"

Yes, sorry HT but this does appear to still be more of a discussion than a flame war.

My guess is you stopped reading the posts a long time ago. So how you could know this is beyond me.

Nope; I'm still reading, and you're still going around in circles.

That's because I had to keep saying the same thing over and over.

You didn't have to, you just felt compelled to because you kept arguing non-existent counter points. That's how people like you win arguments; just continue responding to things that weren't said while insisting they were. Then eventually, after creating multiple pages of nonsense, suggest others aren't smart enough to understand you and you're done, taking the high road.

Or in the alternative, the debate takes place with someone who is predisposed to a particular position for no good reason and is unwilling or incapable of understanding the underlying argument, which is what I think has happened here. I have given an opinion and reasons for it that for whatever you reason you disagree with. You then tell me that I'm wrong, but never explain why. Then you proceed into a personal attack which consists largely of you using petty insults and describing all of the things that you have done, but project them onto me.

I have to continue responding because everytime I read one of your responses it's clear that you just don't seem to get the whole idea that people are entitled to their opinions. Whether justified or not, they are entitled to them. I feel, because of the different reasons that I've given, am justified in my opinion. You don't agree, which is fine. My problem lies in the fact that you keep making me state the same argument over and over, and then tell me that it doesnt exist. You either suffer from a very short-term memory, or you really just don't understand what's going on, or how to phrase an argument.

I will make it very simple. I have stated my opinion, you are free to take it or leave it. That's the whole point of the discussion. Now that I know how you feel on the subject, we can leave it at that. Agree to disagree. Nothing more needs to be said because this has degenerated into a fight over semantics.