Korn - Korn (#5467)

Goat · **Posted:** Tue Jul 07, 2009 10:16 am

rio wrote:

FrigidSymphony wrote:

ganeshaRules wrote:

Goat wrote:

This album changed some music. So there would be no complaints if I reviewed Nirvana's back catalogue next week?

For me is ok, first, you did it with Pearl Jam, why not with Nirvana? Nevermind is a classic (in influence terms, and musically far better than Korn) and Bleach is a good album.

WAT

Plus one to that rolls. At least Grohl and co. could do far more than the simplistic nonsense that Korn came up with. And he likes Celtic Frost! :dio:

ganeshaRules · **Posted:** Tue Jul 07, 2009 10:22 am

Goat wrote:

Plus one to that rolls. At least Grohl and co. could do far more than the simplistic nonsense that Korn came up with. And he likes Celtic Frost! :dio:

Not only CF, a lot of metal, as he showed in Probot.

SoulSociety · **Posted:** Tue Jul 07, 2009 1:21 pm

AlexandeR wrote:

Goat wrote:

Anyone seriously calling this a classic needs a verbal kicking.

+1000
And please, don't start saying "it's a matter of tastes", "it's my opinion" and all that kind of shit. All about Korn is a disgrace for Metal, their music, lyrics for 12 years old, and their hip-hop-reggae-skate-cholo look. Those are facts. Opinions can't do shit against facts.

+ another 9999. Like all their albums, this album sucks. I actually tried hearing their whole discography once to see if they had anything of worth. Of course, it was for nothing and as far as this album goes, when I got to Shoots and Ladders, I was as close to suicidal as I ever got.

Adam · **Posted:** Tue Jul 07, 2009 1:26 pm

I love the reverse elitism in this thread.

I don't really hate all Korn. I liked Follow the Leader as well (minus the atrocious song with Fred Durst). Its On! and Justin are still cool songs if you ask me, but this album just sucks. For starters, the production robs the guitars of having any real punch like they did on later albums. The songwriting feels simplistic to a fault. I'm sure even the band, in a private moment, would admit this is their weakest material. Again, for the reverse elitists, I don't see where anyone has denied the influence this album had, but that doesn't mean its automatically good.

SoulSociety · **Posted:** Tue Jul 07, 2009 1:30 pm

Adam wrote:

I love the reverse elitism in this thread.

I don't really hate all Korn. I liked Follow the Leader as well (minus the atrocious song with Fred Durst). Its On! and Justin are still cool songs if you ask me, but this album just sucks. For starters, the production robs the guitars of having any real punch like they did on later albums. The songwriting feels simplistic to a fault. I'm sure even the band, in a private moment, would admit this is their weakest material. Again, for the reverse elitists, I don't see where anyone has denied the influence this album had, but that doesn't mean its automatically good.

Exactly, just because a lot of people like it, doesn't mean it's automatically a classic. Back to that Britney Spears thing that came up before, wouldn't that irk pretty much all of you that her debut would be considered a classic?

And as for Frigid's opinion on this album, colour me surprised :wink:

rio · **Posted:** Tue Jul 07, 2009 1:58 pm

Adam wrote:

I love the reverse elitism in this thread.

I don't really hate all Korn. I liked Follow the Leader as well (minus the atrocious song with Fred Durst). Its On! and Justin are still cool songs if you ask me, but this album just sucks. For starters, the production robs the guitars of having any real punch like they did on later albums. The songwriting feels simplistic to a fault. I'm sure even the band, in a private moment, would admit this is their weakest material. Again, for the reverse elitists, I don't see where anyone has denied the influence this album had, but that doesn't mean its automatically good.

I like Goat's review because he's obviously approached it with an open mind and tried to find something he likes in it. If he finds it lacking, then that says something about the album, I guess. I feel the same way as him, really.

I think a lot of metalheads do just write this kind of thing off without giving it the same chances, so in that sense I can sorta see where the reverse elitists are coming from. I mean, Soul Society, when you went on your Korn marathon, are you 100% sure you hadn't written it off before you started?

Satan's Anus · **Joined:** Sun Mar 22, 2009 7:37 pm **Posts:** 1046

Goat wrote:

Fatpom wrote:

Thats a short sighted, biased and all around retarded review.

Even if you don't like it, its undeniably a classic album based not only on its impact, influence and commercial success. But also on its musical merits as hard as that may be for "metal" fans to admit.

An undeniably original sound. The effective melding of opposing genres, creating its own genre to an extent and then defining that genre. Its historical impact on the industry, its fresh sound (at the time certainly) catchy, heavy etc.

There's obviously an argument to be made about it being dated now and not holding up well in hindsight. Things I wouldn't necessarily disagree with. But to pretend it wasn't what it was in its time is just dishonest.

I think I dealt with pretty much every point here in the review. Musical merits? HA! I listen to everything from classical to Jazz to Prog to Metal, to claim with a straight face that Korn has musical merits is ridiculous. It's NOT an original sound, as I said in the review. They took Primus, added hip-hop, and dumbed it down to a massive extent. Not original at all. Fresh sound? Huh. Catchy? Maybe, but if you honestly think DUNH DUNH DUNH is heavy you need to broaden your horizons, chum. An album that sold a lot and influenced shitty bands does not make it worthy of praise, in my eyes, as I said before.

This album changed some music. So there would be no complaints if I reviewed Nirvana's back catalogue next week?

Zad, sometimes you paint yourself as completely ignorant. Korn sound NOTHING like Primus. You hear "slappy" bass and think Primus? Ridiculous. To this day, Korn still has an original sound.

The problem with this review is that you're trying to rewrite historical fact with a simpleton-like opinion. You don't like Korn. Okay, not a problem. But that changes NOTHING when it comes to their significance in the history of music. Sadly, you don't seem to get that. You can listen to jazz and prog and metal and whatever else you want to listen to, it doesn't make any opinion you have hold more weight.

The fact remains, and will always remain: Korn's debut is a classic.

Satan's Anus · **Joined:** Sun Mar 22, 2009 7:37 pm **Posts:** 1046

SoulSociety wrote:

Adam wrote:

I love the reverse elitism in this thread.

I don't really hate all Korn. I liked Follow the Leader as well (minus the atrocious song with Fred Durst). Its On! and Justin are still cool songs if you ask me, but this album just sucks. For starters, the production robs the guitars of having any real punch like they did on later albums. The songwriting feels simplistic to a fault. I'm sure even the band, in a private moment, would admit this is their weakest material. Again, for the reverse elitists, I don't see where anyone has denied the influence this album had, but that doesn't mean its automatically good.

Exactly, just because a lot of people like it, doesn't mean it's automatically a classic. Back to that Britney Spears thing that came up before, wouldn't that irk pretty much all of you that her debut would be considered a classic?

And as for Frigid's opinion on this album, colour me surprised :wink:

He said "automatically good" not "automatically classic." It is a classic.

Just like Britney Spears's debut.

Cú Chulainn · **Posted:** Tue Jul 07, 2009 3:52 pm

Satan's Anus wrote:

Goat wrote:

Fatpom wrote:

Thats a short sighted, biased and all around retarded review.

Even if you don't like it, its undeniably a classic album based not only on its impact, influence and commercial success. But also on its musical merits as hard as that may be for "metal" fans to admit.

An undeniably original sound. The effective melding of opposing genres, creating its own genre to an extent and then defining that genre. Its historical impact on the industry, its fresh sound (at the time certainly) catchy, heavy etc.

There's obviously an argument to be made about it being dated now and not holding up well in hindsight. Things I wouldn't necessarily disagree with. But to pretend it wasn't what it was in its time is just dishonest.

I think I dealt with pretty much every point here in the review. Musical merits? HA! I listen to everything from classical to Jazz to Prog to Metal, to claim with a straight face that Korn has musical merits is ridiculous. It's NOT an original sound, as I said in the review. They took Primus, added hip-hop, and dumbed it down to a massive extent. Not original at all. Fresh sound? Huh. Catchy? Maybe, but if you honestly think DUNH DUNH DUNH is heavy you need to broaden your horizons, chum. An album that sold a lot and influenced shitty bands does not make it worthy of praise, in my eyes, as I said before.

This album changed some music. So there would be no complaints if I reviewed Nirvana's back catalogue next week?

Zad, sometimes you paint yourself as completely ignorant. Korn sound NOTHING like Primus. You hear "slappy" bass and think Primus? Ridiculous. To this day, Korn still has an original sound.

The problem with this review is that you're trying to rewrite historical fact with a simpleton-like opinion. You don't like Korn. Okay, not a problem. But that changes NOTHING when it comes to their significance in the history of music. Sadly, you don't seem to get that. You can listen to jazz and prog and metal and whatever else you want to listen to, it doesn't make any opinion you have hold more weight.

The fact remains, and will always remain: Korn's debut is a classic.

I too think the comparison with Primus is unfair. Primus are not a metal band, and are trying to create a style of music completely different than what Korn want to do.

Adam · **Posted:** Tue Jul 07, 2009 3:54 pm

Satan's Anus wrote:

He said "automatically good" not "automatically classic." It is a classic.

Just like Britney Spears's debut.

Classic is such a personal term really. I won't call anything a classic unless I enjoy it...a lot. I realize that's a narrow view, but its just my opinion. There are plenty of albums (this one for instance) that I will agree are landmark releases for the influence and lasting effect, but that doesn't make them classics in my view since I personally find the music very poor.

Goat · **Posted:** Tue Jul 07, 2009 3:56 pm

Satan's Anus wrote:

Zad, sometimes you paint yourself as completely ignorant. Korn sound NOTHING like Primus. You hear "slappy" bass and think Primus? Ridiculous. To this day, Korn still has an original sound.

The problem with this review is that you're trying to rewrite historical fact with a simpleton-like opinion. You don't like Korn. Okay, not a problem. But that changes NOTHING when it comes to their significance in the history of music. Sadly, you don't seem to get that. You can listen to jazz and prog and metal and whatever else you want to listen to, it doesn't make any opinion you have hold more weight.

The fact remains, and will always remain: Korn's debut is a classic.

1. Yes, they do. Primus dumbed down, as I said in the review.
2. Korn's sound is original to this day? It wasn't back then!
3. Did I say this album wasn't significant? Nooooo I didn't. My point was, as you'd know if you actually read the review instead of harping on like a fanboy, that just because Korn's debut was so influential doesn't mean people should listen to it now.
4. Come on, history of music? Nirvana were much more influential.
5. "Simpleton" and "ignorant", eh? FFS, Ken, your opinion that Korn are godlike is not more valid than mine that they're not, so keep the 'I'm right, you're a dumb idiot' shit to a minimum, hurrr?

I'll have to review a bunch of Black Metal next week to purify my soul for even admitting to Korn's existence.

And what Adam said, plus one, that's what I've been getting at all along.

Caligula_K · **Joined:** Mon Nov 22, 2004 8:56 pm **Posts:** 3561

I agree with Zad here. Just because something is influential does not make it a classic; The Beatles have stood the test of time, whereas Korn and the shitty sub-genre they helped pioneer have not. And this album is just awful- hell, even when I was into stuff like Linkin Park and Limp Bizkit I never liked Korn. It's just whiny and not interesting at all.

ganeshaRules · **Posted:** Tue Jul 07, 2009 5:31 pm

Goat wrote:

4. Come on, history of music? Nirvana were much more influential.

And better musically.

Goat · **Posted:** Tue Jul 07, 2009 5:32 pm

ganeshaRules wrote:

Goat wrote:

4. Come on, history of music? Nirvana were much more influential.

And better musically.

Plus one to that! At least Grohl and co. could do far more than the simplistic nonsense that Korn came up with. And he likes Celtic Frost! :dio:

ganeshaRules · **Posted:** Tue Jul 07, 2009 5:36 pm

Goat wrote:

ganeshaRules wrote:

Goat wrote:

4. Come on, history of music? Nirvana were much more influential.

And better musically.

Plus one to that! At least Grohl and co. could do far more than the simplistic nonsense that Korn came up with. And he likes Celtic Frost! :dio:

Not only CF, a lot of metal, as he showed in Probot.

Déjà vu :ph34r:

MetalStorm · **Posted:** Tue Jul 07, 2009 7:14 pm

Can we just say Korn sucks monkey balls and be done with it :lol:

Adam · **Posted:** Tue Jul 07, 2009 7:18 pm

MetalStorm wrote:

Can we just say Korn sucks monkey balls and be done with it :lol:

Wishful thinking my friend. See you in 3 pages.

MetalStorm · **Posted:** Tue Jul 07, 2009 7:20 pm

Adam wrote:

MetalStorm wrote:

Can we just say Korn sucks monkey balls and be done with it :lol:

Wishful thinking my friend. See you in 3 pages.

Don't you mean 10 pages the rate it's going now

ganeshaRules · **Posted:** Tue Jul 07, 2009 7:33 pm

MetalStorm wrote:

Adam wrote:

MetalStorm wrote:

Can we just say Korn sucks monkey balls and be done with it :lol:

Wishful thinking my friend. See you in 3 pages.

Don't you mean 10 pages the rate it's going now

or 20... It's Korn :lol:

juannaman · **Joined:** Tue Jan 20, 2009 12:53 pm **Posts:** 360

zad how can you compare korn to primus
korn is not a dumbed down version of primus they are completely different
i mean hear nothing see nothing say nothing is much simpler

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Korn - Korn (#5467)

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