Metal Reviews

No, you're splitting hairs. Darkthrone and Dark Funeral are as = as 1 and 1, when it comes to the norsecore tag. All that misty foggy black metal, devoid of song structure, or an obvious "metal sound," is what I've understood norsecore to be. Sodom and Venom for example... had the metal sound. Also, they were the beginnings of black metal.

Emperor, no matter how "METAL" it is, is totally unlike metal. Same goes for all the Norwegian originators. Norsecore isn't a bad term. But, it does draw a line for some people who lean one direction rather than another.

Blackgoat even sells Norsecore on his site, Tha-Norr, and it's fucking addictive. It's compared to Moonblood, and they aren't fucking orignators of SHIT.

I wish otakon was here, because there's something key I'm missing.

WTF Norsecore is just a pejorative term for black metal that the user thinks is just a crappy rip off of better Norwegian bands.

Since when have Emperor, Burzum, Ulver etc been either devoid of song structure or anything but metal?

To quote otakon: Welcome to Hell = black metal. Transylvanian Hunger = norsecore. Simple as that.

The term norsecore was coined by Finnish band Wizzard somewhere in the 90's to mean the kind of stuff that had started coming out of every basement in Norway (and all Scandinavia) at that time. The norse 2nd wave BM bands had started to lose the traditional metal elements of 1st wave BM bands, and started incorporating elements more akin to hardcore punk into their sound (blastbeats, simplistic riffs, very simple song structures, raw production, etc.)

It's not a term for dissing bands, it's a description of a certain style within BM.



Devoid of song structure? Hell no. But very far from traditional metal.

Not what I meant. But, they fall FAAAAR from the metal tree. Think about it. THINK ABOUT IT.

You do realize straight heavy metal and power metal can be black metal, right? You have listened to some of the original black metal acts right? Fans of the real originals made up the "Norsecore" term. You realize that, right? Real black metal isn't about nature... you know that, RIGHT?

I know I don't know the whole story, but I know enough to know it's not a derogitory term when used right, and that there's a definitive difference between METAL and "black metal," which at times reminds me of punk or grind, or even techno more than anything else.

To someone hearing Emperor the first time... Tell me they understand what the hell is going on. No newb can keep up with non-versechorusversechorus crap in the beginning, and death metal is the same way. Devoid of "BASIC" song structure, then, in some cases... And what about the first time you hard Nargoroth's "7 tears..." Imagine that was the first norsecore you ever heard.

"It's just the same riff... over and over again." It grew on me, but it took me a while to... get it. Didn't seem much like a song as a newb.

Ok, i misunderstood your original post. Devoid of basic song structure, ok... I hate Nargaroth with a passion btw (not just because of the music, but Kanwulf also seems to be a fucking clown).

But the norse 2nd wave of BM went in a load of different directions, not all of which were influenced by hardcore. It seems to me that this scene was much more diverse and forward thinking than calling it norsecore gives it credit for.

What's more, it is contained much more deeply in the metal tradition than is implied by the norsecore term. I see the more complex 2nd wave bands in particular as an elaboration of 80s speed metal, not a departure from it. Metal had already been started upon the trajectory that would lead to Emperor's more symphonic albums long before.

OK I'LL THINK ABOUT IT

You're defining the "realness" of black metal in terms of chronology. By that logic, I could say that Venom were not real metal because their lyrical themes were different to that of the first ever metal bands.

If anything, the 2nd wave norse bands are the real form of BM, because they represent a more distinctive, refined stage in its evolution.

LOL, no, I just don't think bands like Emperor or Burzum or Darkthrone, Ulver or Ildjarn or Mayhem, or anything of the like sound anything like metal. It possesses the FEELING of metal. But, it's a whole new creature.

Yeah, but you kinda saved me from myself, because like I said... I don't know the whole idea behind "norsecore," but I've gotten the jist enough to know 2nd wave all falls into that "category." BTW, do you post at BW.org? I hadn't gone in a while. They slimmed down their memberlist, I used to have an account there... : \

NO HE ISN'T.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_jqG6NlhPI
Wait maybe he is...

Well, that view is totally inexplicable to me, but fair enough!

Real black metal is about nature

real black metal is NOT about fake satanists. therefore, venom is not black metal

the first REAL bm bands were bathory, celtic frost, shit like that. And even then they were not 100% bm

I'll buy some Darkthrone songs and early Burzum too as "Norsecore" in the "hardcore" sense but Ulver and Emperor (Nightside eclipse onward) had nothing to do with hardcore. As Rio noted catergorizing more complex second wave bm bands (as KGG did) as Norsecore in this sense is a flat-out misnomer.

However, as to the historical points, I'll defer to Jurgen and KGG.

I agree with you. But i didn't come up with the term, i'm just explaining it!



No. What's BW.org, hehe?



Go jump in front of a train. Now.



But seriously, Venom invented the term for the music they play, and the fact that BM has gone into many different directions since does not change that fact. And a lot more bands than just Venom used the term before the 2nd wave bands. For example, Sodom called their music BM in the beginning (the first EP was total BM!) and even Destruction called themselves black speed metal.

Bathory didn't use the term out of respect for Venom and Hellhammer/Celtic Frost called themselves Death Metal in the early days (Tom G. Warrior actually referred to Venom as death metal gods in an early interview).

Some random trivia there, but my point is: Venom is 100% black metal. (and they piss on your forest trolls. )



Ulver and Emperor aren't straight up norsecore, they have more progressive elements, but they do have elements that back then were considered elements of hardcore. The style and techniques of the guitar riffing, although having a totally different approach to melody and harmony than punk, owe a lot to old hardcore.
This kind of guitar riffing has been incorporated into metal by many bands these days, but the roots are more in the more extreme forms of hardcore than in Judas Priest and Black Sabbath.

Hell, even blastbeats were used in punk before DM bands like Repulsion and Morbid Angel brought them into metal.

Are you a music history buff, or have you just been around quite a while and always noted these things? You always seem to provide fascinating read on this stuff.

I quess i'm a bit of a music history and music trivia freak. I've been into metal for quite a long time considering my age (i'm 21 in a month), but i'm by no means a veteran.

That last post was goddamn long because i answered to so many peoples' posts. I'm surprised someone read through it all. But it's nice that someone gets something out of my endless essays on metal history, heh. I'm not trying to be some kind of metal guru or anything, but i seem to get drawn into these kinds of discussions often.

The only BM band I like is Ludicra.

I'm listening to them now!

Yay!

How can you not like Negura Bunget dude? Or Enslaved? Or Mystic Forest? Or Klabautamann? Or Nokturnal Mortum?

Yeah, Noodles, I don't understand. Not all black metal is minimalist or "simple". Negura Bunget's most recent album is a perfect example of how it can be fairly technical.