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Cradle Of Filth = Sellouts?
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Author:  Seinfeld26 [ Sun May 08, 2005 3:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Cradle Of Filth = Sellouts?
First of all, I'm not a fan of any Cradle Of Filth, so don't go thinking I'm one of those COF fanboys, but what I don't understand is why people are so quick to flame their newer material. Was it just because they signed onto Sony Records (one of the biggest record labels in America)? Geez, are black metal fans so out of touch with the outside world that they actually think your average MTV-kid would listen to something like COF? I've heard quite a bit of their music, and their newer material has nothing about it that I would deem "commercial" sounding. And if they WERE trying to sell out, they certainly aren't very good businessmen. Most MTV-kids think of heavy metal as "just noise." If Cradle Of Filth ever started airing their videos on MTV America, most mainstreamers would probably scoff at them. So what's the deal with new COF anyway?
Author:  Misha [ Sun May 08, 2005 3:48 pm ]
Post subject: 
If it's sellout, then it doesn't mean it has to appeal to the masses, to a larger audience would be sellout as well. To try to sell more not by making good music but my making good promotion is sellout, it doesn't mean that you actually sell a lot. For example, Enter Chaos could be considered sellout as well. And old CoF really is different from new CoF, the new one is not even comparable to the old stuff.
Author:  Anonymous [ Sun May 08, 2005 3:50 pm ]
Post subject: 
so basically, you're saying evolution is selling out ? :roll:

since some people still seem to find CoF's new stuff enjoyable, I don't se how the whole selling out concept reffers to them.... and remember, I don't like CoF, old or new... 8)
Author:  Misha [ Sun May 08, 2005 3:55 pm ]
Post subject: 
evolution has nothing to do with that because it's unrelated to promotion. that new CoF is bad is just something that isn't related to selling out either, although it seems to go hand in hand quite often.
Author:  deathkvlt [ Sun May 08, 2005 5:50 pm ]
Post subject: 
I like new CoF (although not as much as the old) but I think they're sell outs.

Proof:

CoF have always used Sarah Jezevel Deva as their female vocalist, but all of a sudden they move her aside to use a Evanessence-like vocalist for their new single..... that's just pathetic, and if I was Sarah, I would have been über pissed.

But "meh"... what can I say, I like the new album, I even bought it...
Author:  Praetor [ Mon May 09, 2005 1:39 pm ]
Post subject: 
Gast1 wrote:
evolution has nothing to do with that because it's unrelated to promotion. that new CoF is bad is just something that isn't related to selling out either, although it seems to go hand in hand quite often.


i agree, "selling-out" usually means the band and/or its label have some huge marketing/promotion plan. the link between a band being bad and selling out is this (i think) : in order to appeal to the masses, certain image changes/music changes must be made. most of the riffs in nymphetamine are simple, as the average mtv listener is unable to comprehend melodies that we metalheads find so endearing.
Author:  unknownkadath666 [ Mon May 09, 2005 9:38 pm ]
Post subject: 
i like the new album, i would call it selling out though, not much but a lil bit. With the new album it sounds liek something was done differently in the studio that was to make it less harsh on the ears. I heard some of there new stuff live and it sounds as good as the dusk era songs.
Author:  Tlaloc [ Wed May 11, 2005 5:47 am ]
Post subject: 
Selling out is defined in the real world by Metallica going country to make money.

Selling out as defined by a BM fan is any band that started off playing black metal but decided to change direction because of creative reasons - whether money was involved or not.

Selling out is NOT defined by a band having a large audience. Would any of you even dare to suggest that Iron MAiden are sellouts? Thought not. Yet they are THE most commercially successful metal band in existence.
Author:  Praetor [ Wed May 11, 2005 10:32 am ]
Post subject: 
Sir Wanksalot wrote:
Selling out as defined by a BM fan is any band that started off playing black metal but decided to change direction because of creative reasons - whether money was involved or not.


your metallica example is valid.

but there are BM bands who change direction yet they arent sell outs. ive never heard of anyone calling Behemoth (who even changed genres), Borknagar, Arcturus, Aborym, Ulver, or Samael as sell-outs.
Author:  Anonymous [ Wed May 11, 2005 12:20 pm ]
Post subject: 
Praetor wrote:
Sir Wanksalot wrote:
Selling out as defined by a BM fan is any band that started off playing black metal but decided to change direction because of creative reasons - whether money was involved or not.


your metallica example is valid.

but there are BM bands who change direction yet they arent sell outs. ive never heard of anyone calling Behemoth (who even changed genres), Borknagar, Arcturus, Aborym, Ulver, or Samael as sell-outs.


as Wankalot stated Metallica sold-out... though, he obviously feel they did with Load/reLoad when I think they did with St Anger... Load/reLoad was what I call evolution....

for me the biggest example of (good) selling out is Judas Priest making an utterly commercial album in 1986... and I still love very much Turbo but I have to admit that was a major sell-out album...

and since JP went the right way on the next album (though not as good as Turbo) I think Metallica can do the same thing (which doesn't change the fact that Lars is a major asshole and will always be)
Author:  Seinfeld26 [ Wed May 11, 2005 2:44 pm ]
Post subject: 
The Immortal Emokid wrote:
Praetor wrote:
Sir Wanksalot wrote:
Selling out as defined by a BM fan is any band that started off playing black metal but decided to change direction because of creative reasons - whether money was involved or not.


your metallica example is valid.

but there are BM bands who change direction yet they arent sell outs. ive never heard of anyone calling Behemoth (who even changed genres), Borknagar, Arcturus, Aborym, Ulver, or Samael as sell-outs.


as Wankalot stated Metallica sold-out... though, he obviously feel they did with Load/reLoad when I think they did with St Anger... Load/reLoad was what I call evolution....

for me the biggest example of (good) selling out is Judas Priest making an utterly commercial album in 1986... and I still love very much Turbo but I have to admit that was a major sell-out album...

and since JP went the right way on the next album (though not as good as Turbo) I think Metallica can do the same thing (which doesn't change the fact that Lars is a major asshole and will always be)


Ehhh, ass-holey bandmembers are no big deal. After all, it isn't as if Phil Anselmo, Glen Benton and Steve Souza aren't also assholes.
Author:  Goat [ Wed May 11, 2005 2:57 pm ]
Post subject: 
Call me strange, but I prefer new, rockier COF to old, poor-BM-impersonation COF.
Author:  deathkvlt [ Wed May 11, 2005 5:58 pm ]
Post subject: 
deathkvlt wrote:
I like new CoF (although not as much as the old) but I think they're sell outs.

Proof:

CoF have always used Sarah Jezevel Deva as their female vocalist, but all of a sudden they move her aside to use a Evanessence-like vocalist for their new single..... that's just pathetic, and if I was Sarah, I would have been über pissed.

But "meh"... what can I say, I like the new album, I even bought it...


NO one replied to my proof of CoF being sell-outs. That means I win :twisted:
Author:  Anonymous [ Wed May 11, 2005 6:03 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
CoF have always used Sarah Jezevel Deva as their female vocalist, but all of a sudden they move her aside to use a Evanessence-like vocalist for their new single.....


imho, that could be part of the evolution process any band is facing at some point of his career.... example : Bush replacing Belladonna in Anthrax gave back the raw energy that was missing on the Anthrax/Belladonna era... not to say, those albums are better (which I think they aren't) but the band needed that change in order to complete his artistic will... :roll:

so you didn't win after all ! :P
Author:  deathkvlt [ Wed May 11, 2005 7:19 pm ]
Post subject: 
NOOOOOOOO Because the rest of the album features Jezebel Deva, only the single (aimed at Hot Topic kiddies) features this singer.

I wiiiiiiiiiiiin.
Author:  Anonymous [ Wed May 11, 2005 7:49 pm ]
Post subject: 
deathkvlt wrote:
NOOOOOOOO Because the rest of the album features Jezebel Deva, only the single (aimed at Hot Topic kiddies) features this singer.

I wiiiiiiiiiiiin.


maybe they just wanted something different for the single... :roll:

and, Daniel, unless you find a written or recorded proof of any of CoF mambers saying they did that for commercial purpose, you'll never convince me ! loser ! :evil: :wink:
Author:  deathkvlt [ Wed May 11, 2005 8:14 pm ]
Post subject: 
Meh.... anyway, I like the single and the album so.... I don't care really...
Author:  Praetor [ Thu May 12, 2005 10:00 am ]
Post subject: 
now all they have to do is lose that silly image of theirs.
Author:  OldSchool [ Thu May 12, 2005 8:58 pm ]
Post subject: 
Selling out, for me, is when an artist creates something he doesn't really believe in, he just does it for money, with the only goal of creating a product that sells well. If a musician sacrifices his artistic integrity for the sake of money, than he's a sell-out. On the other hand, if he really believes in his music, and the music sells very well and makes him rich, that's not selling out. That's luck. Also, if he believes in his music, his music is really bad, but sells very good, I guess he's not a sell out.. just a bad musician. But lucky.
As for Cradle, I have a slight impression that they're more interested in making money than making good music, nowadays.
Author:  Ruthless_Killer [ Sun May 15, 2005 2:44 pm ]
Post subject: 
Well i have to admit that their latest offering is bad compared to the others.. The guitar riffs and drums sound kinda lame.. And dani voice is also not as good as last time anymore.. Their lyrics are simple and pretty lame i should say... Is this a result from them signing to Sony Records or is this revolution?
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