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A Little Something that's been bugging me about BM
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Author:  Mintrude [ Sun Apr 22, 2007 5:48 pm ]
Post subject:  A Little Something that's been bugging me about BM
Well NSBM in particular. Very few people in BM, if any have spoken out against it. Everybody, when asked about it either says "Black Metal isn't about politics" or something along the lines of "It's good that they're saying something different". Well, rant over, It's just I think racism is disgusting, I'm sure all of you do, and I feel it is something that grows wherever it is tolerated.
Author:  Jürgen [ Sun Apr 22, 2007 6:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: A Little Something that's been bugging me about BM
Mintrude wrote:
racism is disgusting.


Hating is OK but hating selectively is disgusting? Black metal in general is full of hatred and misanthropy, but it suddenly becomes disgusting when it's racially motivated?

I don't really have racial preferences myself. Just a thought.
Author:  Mintrude [ Sun Apr 22, 2007 6:31 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
Hating is OK but hating selectively is disgusting? Black metal in general is full of hatred and misanthropy, but it suddenly becomes disgusting when it's racially motivated?


I never once said it was OK to hate. And if you hate everyone, at least your'e not treating anyone differently because of colour, sexual preferences etc. Not that I support hating everyone.
Author:  Anonymous [ Sun Apr 22, 2007 7:45 pm ]
Post subject: 
Hatred is for the weak, contempt is for the strong.
Author:  North From Here [ Sun Apr 22, 2007 9:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: A Little Something that's been bugging me about BM
Mintrude wrote:
Well NSBM in particular. Very few people in BM, if any have spoken out against it. Everybody, when asked about it either says "Black Metal isn't about politics" or something along the lines of "It's good that they're saying something different". Well, rant over, It's just I think racism is disgusting, I'm sure all of you do, and I feel it is something that grows wherever it is tolerated.


Nothing against you in particular, but this constantly comes up. Just look how misogynist some of the rap lyrics are that sell millions. Not everything in the world has to be PC, so I recommend you either ignore it, listen and make fun of the stupid lyrics. or don't listen at all.
Author:  noodles [ Mon Apr 23, 2007 2:40 am ]
Post subject: 
It seems almost trendy in black metal to get attention to your band by doing over the top, provocative things and that kind of annoys me because it has nothing to do with the music.
Author:  rio [ Mon Apr 23, 2007 10:48 am ]
Post subject: 
Well, there's plenty of types of music that have fascist subgenres. Be thankful that in NSBM you can't actually understand what the fuck they're saying, which you would if it were RAC or white power punk.
Author:  Goat [ Mon Apr 23, 2007 11:11 am ]
Post subject: 
I usually leave politics out of music, whether it's NSBM or not. I read books by right-wingers, I can listen to music by them. It's a different sort of experience, but I'm not going to ignore the art because the artist's a twat. Tolerating it = letting it grow? I find the best way to deal with idiots is to laught at them, and there are few things funnier than overly-earnest NSBM.

However, I do have the greatest respect for those whose personal moral code stops them from listening. So, y' know, it's your choice.
Author:  Rhys [ Mon Apr 23, 2007 11:26 am ]
Post subject: 
rio wrote:
Well, there's plenty of types of music that have fascist subgenres. Be thankful that in NSBM you can't actually understand what the fuck they're saying, which you would if it were RAC or white power punk.


Whats RAC stand for?
Author:  rio [ Mon Apr 23, 2007 11:45 am ]
Post subject: 
RAC=Rock Against Communism

I think it's mainly a UK thing revolving around bands like Skrewdriver. I actually have a book on it but I haven't got round to reading it yet. Oi/Skinhead music, basically.
Author:  Jürgen [ Mon Apr 23, 2007 5:12 pm ]
Post subject: 
Skrewdriver was a kickass band.
Author:  Mintrude [ Mon Apr 23, 2007 5:27 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
Nothing against you in particular, but this constantly comes up. Just look how misogynist some of the rap lyrics are that sell millions. Not everything in the world has to be PC, so I recommend you either ignore it, listen and make fun of the stupid lyrics. or don't listen at all.


I wasn't really talking about NSBM as a genre of music, more how no one in black metal has really spoken out against it.
Author:  Kathaarian [ Mon Apr 23, 2007 6:22 pm ]
Post subject: 
Well I did have a beef with this genre in my time since I'm an üntermensch or whatever but I let it pass because some of these bands make great music (Gravleand, Satanic Warmaster etc.). I think it isn't surprising that no one really stands up against it, if raping and eating new born babies is ok in this crazy music called metal then it has to be ok to burn some J00z and Niggaz. (and Turks for that matter)
Author:  Mintrude [ Mon Apr 23, 2007 6:38 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
Well I did have a beef with this genre in my time since I'm an üntermensch or whatever but I let it pass because some of these bands make great music (Gravleand, Satanic Warmaster etc.). I think it isn't surprising that no one really stands up against it, if raping and eating new born babies is ok in this crazy music called metal then it has to be ok to burn some J00z and Niggaz. (and Turks for that matter)


I can't think of any metal bands off hand a sing about raping and eating newborn babies that actually mean it.
Author:  Kathaarian [ Mon Apr 23, 2007 6:52 pm ]
Post subject: 
Mintrude wrote:
Quote:
Well I did have a beef with this genre in my time since I'm an üntermensch or whatever but I let it pass because some of these bands make great music (Gravleand, Satanic Warmaster etc.). I think it isn't surprising that no one really stands up against it, if raping and eating new born babies is ok in this crazy music called metal then it has to be ok to burn some J00z and Niggaz. (and Turks for that matter)


I can't think of any metal bands off hand a sing about raping and eating newborn babies that actually mean it.


I don't think most NS bands mean what they say either. Nokturnal Mortum and Disiplin (if I'm not mistaken) for example didn't write NS shit until their later albums. You don't usually realize you're racist in your 30th birthday do you? I think it's about provoking people more than anything else.
Author:  Mintrude [ Mon Apr 23, 2007 9:44 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
I don't think most NS bands mean what they say either. Nokturnal Mortum and Disiplin (if I'm not mistaken) for example didn't write NS shit until their later albums. You don't usually realize you're racist in your 30th birthday do you? I think it's about provoking people more than anything else.


Are Disiplin NS?. That's a fair point, black metal is about rebellion and you can't get much more rebellious than fascism. I honestly think Vaggoth really does mean what he says though, even if he didn't express it until later in life.
Author:  Astaroth [ Mon Apr 23, 2007 10:24 pm ]
Post subject: 
well, i understand if you don't like them. You don't like ppl who walks around beating ppl up so they can feel better about themselves, either, do you? What's my point? well, imo both groups has lot's in common. A bunch of looser. I'm not saying that all naziscum are ppl who had low selfesteem as child, though.
But i have talked to several of this kind: A person who had low selfesteem/a weak self image as child because he/she couldn't measure up to other ppl expectations or values, then later in life chooses to set up their own parameters to which they can measure ppl - parameters that makes the person feeling on top of the world and thereby strengthens the persons selfimage. Thus the balance is restored. Some ppl, however, don't grow up and still feel the need to "bully" other ppl in order to feel better about themselves. F.ex. the fat looser that did poorly in school, both social and academic who later decides to beat ppl up so he can feel strong instead of weak, the guy who thinks ppl without a proper stereo with gold cabels are idiots etc.

I have talked to several naziscum over the internet. All had little education, some were on medicin to keep their mind in shape while others just felt inadequate as child ( "I hated who i was before, i was a weakling compared to now! Bohoo!"). They will always try to hid this with stupid arguments they probably don't even belief themselves, after a little discussion their only argument is " you are just stupid and weak because i say so!.. and.. and.. you're a jew!!!" because their original argument was too easy to pick apart - and then they won't argue with me any longer :sad: ... But all they did was to create some sort of balance inside their head, which is positive thing to start with, unfortunately some ppl can't handle it themselves. The question, should we hate them or feel sorry for them.. .hmm... i think i'll just hate... weaklings, bah! ... i'm feel cool now... :P

of course.. not all nazis are like this.. some grew up in the environment, some weren't critacal enough when they read Mein Kampf and some had some bad experience with black ppl, got beating up by them or think they smell bad f.ex. There's probably more solutions, heh.




hmm... bla bla?!?
Author:  North From Here [ Tue Apr 24, 2007 12:57 am ]
Post subject: 
Mintrude wrote:
Quote:
Nothing against you in particular, but this constantly comes up. Just look how misogynist some of the rap lyrics are that sell millions. Not everything in the world has to be PC, so I recommend you either ignore it, listen and make fun of the stupid lyrics. or don't listen at all.


I wasn't really talking about NSBM as a genre of music, more how no one in black metal has really spoken out against it.


Ok, sorry I missed your point. I just don't think BMers would "speak out" about the lyrical content in other bands; despite the NSBMers I don't think BM on the whole is a very political genre, and I don't think lyrics are seen as important (many are indecipherable anyway) by most of the bands in the genre.

I don't think BM has really been an activist movement (BM historians correct me if I'm wrong) other than in the early 90s in Norway...if Jews/"untermench" were being targeted and attacked by say Nokturnal Mortum than I'd think you'd see some outrage in the genre.

The Kharkov scene (Nokturnal Mortum and Hate Forest members among other bands) seems to perhaps be the epicenter of the NSBM movement (I don't think Burzum or Graveland were/are all that NS) and I think there are a lot of local issues in eastern Ukraine that contribute to the anti-semitism there. Ukraine has a pretty violent history concerning anti-semitism.
Author:  Goat [ Tue Apr 24, 2007 10:38 am ]
Post subject: 
According to them, Disiplin aren't NS, they just like the style. They are worryingly Dissectionistic Gnao-Chaotism, which is often associated with racism, so overall the jury's out.

Few BM bands are really concerned with what other bands are saying, as most believe themselves to be the truest or whatever. I read an interview with Barney from Napalm Death where he criticised fascism in Black Metal, since the genre's so extreme, why add stuff like that? He's right, of course.
Author:  Jürgen [ Tue Apr 24, 2007 11:09 am ]
Post subject: 
Zad wrote:
They are worryingly Dissectionistic Gnao-Chaotism, which is often associated with racism, so overall the jury's out.


Chao-Gnosticism connected with racism? Nigga please. Jon Nödtveidt himself said that he considers racism ridiculous. "The elite is always self-made..."
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