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Transcendental black metal
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Author:  stevelovesmoonspell [ Sun Apr 24, 2011 1:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Transcendental black metal
While at first glance the term transcendental bm is at best a vague and pretentious term, used by labels and indie kids in a vain attempt to abscond from the fact they don't play genuine bm. Though this may be true for certain bands, is there or can there ever be such a term? Perhaps a bit more contemplation is necessary to fully expound on the term, yet with bands such as BAN pushing the envelope of what was vomited forth by countless bands before them, do you see any reality in the term?
Author:  Goat [ Sun Apr 24, 2011 1:40 pm ]
Post subject: 
I think it's a separate thing to this new wave of hipster black metal - the likes of Negura Bunget, and even old Darkthrone, were transcendental in their own ways. Black Metal that does that atmospheric invocation is the best sort - Contra Ignem Fatuum a personal fave.
Author:  North From Here [ Sun Apr 24, 2011 8:28 pm ]
Post subject: 
Generally I think great black metal transcends in its very nature. From the invocation of Eerie Transylvanian Forests like Negura Bunget, the peaceful and raging fjords from old Enslaved, or the medieval dignity of old Emperor, Satyricon, or Borknagar, to the astronomical projection of Limbonic Art, I see great imagery in all this music.

Who didn't see the quiet forests and majestic mountains between Oslo and Bergen (if you get a chance to, take the train between those two cities and play this music...you'll never forget it) while listening to Ulver's Bergtatt, Darkthrone's A Blaze in the Northern Sky, or Burzum's HLTO?

No music outtranscends classic black metal.
Author:  traptunderice [ Sun Apr 24, 2011 11:16 pm ]
Post subject: 
Ummm black metal became non-transcendent when it became rehashed in the late 90s. I think the USBM current wave actually does what those guys were doing but transcends it in a way. It isn't necessarily better but they have stripped the regressive nature of the lyrics while building on it. I know you guys and lady hate it but from their perspective I think they do so. I don't think they reach outside of black metal quite like Blut Aus Nord does but that could be debated with their influence from post-rock.
Author:  SilkCrimsonMoon [ Mon Apr 25, 2011 4:37 pm ]
Post subject: 
I believe any form music can be become transcendental in some way. Take Steve Reich "Music for 18 Musicians" or a Bach violin piece. But Black Metal has a special place in "transcendental" music making. The term transcendental is such an abstract term to use. Music sometimes becomes formless or follows a structure, in which formless music becomes a stronger candidate for a better definition of transcendental music. Black Metal most of the time sacrifices technicality and structure for atmosphere and thus is a better fit for this particular term. It's really a two way argument in my opinion.
Author:  stevelovesmoonspell [ Mon Apr 25, 2011 9:02 pm ]
Post subject: 
traptunderice wrote:
Ummm black metal became non-transcendent when it became rehashed in the late 90s. I think the USBM current wave actually does what those guys were doing but transcends it in a way. It isn't necessarily better but they have stripped the regressive nature of the lyrics while building on it. I know you guys and lady hate it but from their perspective I think they do so. I don't think they reach outside of black metal quite like Blut Aus Nord does but that could be debated with their influence from post-rock.


So adding leftist nonsense to their overall approach to music makes them "transcendent". Nonsense, it merely makes them a political band, not that I have anything against environmentalism, but to say it separates them from the larger corpus of the scene is bullshit pure and simple.
Author:  traptunderice [ Tue Apr 26, 2011 2:02 am ]
Post subject: 
stevelovesmoonspell wrote:
traptunderice wrote:
Ummm black metal became non-transcendent when it became rehashed in the late 90s. I think the USBM current wave actually does what those guys were doing but transcends it in a way. It isn't necessarily better but they have stripped the regressive nature of the lyrics while building on it. I know you guys and lady hate it but from their perspective I think they do so. I don't think they reach outside of black metal quite like Blut Aus Nord does but that could be debated with their influence from post-rock.


So adding leftist nonsense to their overall approach to music makes them "transcendent". Nonsense, it merely makes them a political band, not that I have anything against environmentalism, but to say it separates them from the larger corpus of the scene is bullshit pure and simple.
Umm you're completely misinformed. Liturgy is the one who coined the term transcendental and Hendrix write about personal spiritual endeavors a la Nietzsche. He has an article about Transcendental Black Metal, maybe you should read it before you comment on the damn genre. It has nothing to do with Leftism. Krallice mentions in no form leftist ideas. Their latest album is about the Platonic love defined by Diotima in the Symposium. Transcendental is musical not political.

I think Hendrix has dropped a few too many hits of acid but honestly they are doing a style of black metal that isn't simply the rehashed Darkthrone that all too often comes up. What does it matter what they label it?
Author:  cry of the banshee [ Tue Apr 26, 2011 2:24 am ]
Post subject: 
traptunderice wrote:
stevelovesmoonspell wrote:
traptunderice wrote:
Ummm black metal became non-transcendent when it became rehashed in the late 90s. I think the USBM current wave actually does what those guys were doing but transcends it in a way. It isn't necessarily better but they have stripped the regressive nature of the lyrics while building on it. I know you guys and lady hate it but from their perspective I think they do so. I don't think they reach outside of black metal quite like Blut Aus Nord does but that could be debated with their influence from post-rock.


So adding leftist nonsense to their overall approach to music makes them "transcendent". Nonsense, it merely makes them a political band, not that I have anything against environmentalism, but to say it separates them from the larger corpus of the scene is bullshit pure and simple.
Umm you're completely misinformed. Liturgy is the one who coined the term transcendental and Hendrix write about personal spiritual endeavors a la Nietzsche. He has an article about Transcendental Black Metal, maybe you should read it before you comment on the damn genre. It has nothing to do with Leftism. Krallice mentions in no form leftist ideas. Their latest album is about the Platonic love defined by Diotima in the Symposium. Transcendental is musical not political.

I think Hendrix has dropped a few too many hits of acid but honestly they are doing a style of black metal that isn't simply the rehashed Darkthrone that all too often comes up. What does it matter what they label it?


You mean this?

http://www.lacan.com/lacinkXXXV7.html

Sounds like half-baked pretentious bullshit to me.
Steve nailed it in the original post.
Not only that, but USBM (sorry, American Black metal) by and large sucks ass.
A cheap imitation of the true form(s) of black metal.
As EBD stated: black metal is in and of itself a transcendental form of music, the artists that are transcendant are the ones that (figuratively speaking, of course) seperate the mind from the flesh of the listener. Adding "progressive" elements to it does absolutely nothing in furthering the concept of transcendence. It either has that ill-defined and elusively transient quality, or it doesn't.


Quote:
they have stripped the regressive nature of the lyrics while building on it


Elaborate, please.
Author:  traptunderice [ Tue Apr 26, 2011 3:20 am ]
Post subject: 
cry of the banshee wrote:
traptunderice wrote:
stevelovesmoonspell wrote:
traptunderice wrote:
Ummm black metal became non-transcendent when it became rehashed in the late 90s. I think the USBM current wave actually does what those guys were doing but transcends it in a way. It isn't necessarily better but they have stripped the regressive nature of the lyrics while building on it. I know you guys and lady hate it but from their perspective I think they do so. I don't think they reach outside of black metal quite like Blut Aus Nord does but that could be debated with their influence from post-rock.


So adding leftist nonsense to their overall approach to music makes them "transcendent". Nonsense, it merely makes them a political band, not that I have anything against environmentalism, but to say it separates them from the larger corpus of the scene is bullshit pure and simple.
Umm you're completely misinformed. Liturgy is the one who coined the term transcendental and Hendrix write about personal spiritual endeavors a la Nietzsche. He has an article about Transcendental Black Metal, maybe you should read it before you comment on the damn genre. It has nothing to do with Leftism. Krallice mentions in no form leftist ideas. Their latest album is about the Platonic love defined by Diotima in the Symposium. Transcendental is musical not political.

I think Hendrix has dropped a few too many hits of acid but honestly they are doing a style of black metal that isn't simply the rehashed Darkthrone that all too often comes up. What does it matter what they label it?


You mean this?

http://www.lacan.com/lacinkXXXV7.html

Sounds like half-baked pretentious bullshit to me.
Steve nailed it in the original post.
Not only that, but USBM (sorry, American Black metal) by and large sucks ass.
A cheap imitation of the true form(s) of black metal.
As EBD stated: black metal is in and of itself a transcendental form of music, the artists that are transcendant are the ones that (figuratively speaking, of course) seperate the mind from the flesh of the listener. Adding "progressive" elements to it does absolutely nothing in furthering the concept of transcendence. It either has that ill-defined and elusively transient quality, or it doesn't.


Quote:
they have stripped the regressive nature of the lyrics while building on it


Elaborate, please.
Holy shit! That got published on the Lacan website! Oh man, Lacan is this dead psychoanalyst who is kinda renowned for esoteric bullshit but he was on to something so maybe it's fitting. Insofar as that article was labeled the prolegomenon, it is only the introduction to what I think is a 20 page article.

Well, this inherently transcendental form of music got washed down quite heavily with the ilk of Immortal and Marduk and their clones. Yeah, Mayhem has recently released cool shit, DsO, BAN are transgressing limitations, but by and large I think black metal was pretty stagnant artistically wise minus those bands on the outskirt.

As for the lyrics, the individualism lauded in black metal was only being inhibited by citing Satanism so re-doing it in the more spiritual way Hendrix does I think has something to it, Nietzschean without being infantile.

Edit: I can't get over how his article is beneath a Badiou clipping and a Zizek snippet. But LacanianInk isn't political just to point out. Lacan refused to put his psychoanalysis in terms of ethical or political frameworks. I'm curious what he means by the burst beat. I know Liturgy uses an incredibly stripped down drumset. I don't think that article was too pretentious. He was putting it in overly Nietzschean terms but nothing ridiculous, considering it was published in Lacanian ink.
Author:  Nattulv [ Sun May 01, 2011 5:04 am ]
Post subject: 
If you mean by transcending typical "oldschool" black metal, then uh yea, and countless bands have. Seems like the hipsters who hash together post rock specifically with tremolo picking and screeching need to create a new genre.

Genres are shit anyways.
Author:  GeneralDiomedes [ Sun May 01, 2011 5:24 am ]
Post subject: 
I'm all for transcendence. Is this not how new genres are formed?
Author:  North From Here [ Sun May 01, 2011 5:37 am ]
Post subject: 
GeneralDiomedes wrote:
I'm all for transcendence. Is this not how new genres are formed?


I thought transcendence was a code word for Protest the Hero?
Author:  GeneralDiomedes [ Sun May 01, 2011 5:47 am ]
Post subject: 
emperorblackdoom wrote:
I thought transcendence was a code word for Protest the Hero?


that too.
Author:  Goat [ Sun May 01, 2011 5:55 am ]
Post subject: 
PTH don't have any "cendence" about them.
Author:  Sceadugenga [ Thu May 05, 2011 11:38 pm ]
Post subject: 
I really hate this term "transcendental black metal" that Liturgy popped out...but hey I hate Liturgy. First of all, that stupid "manifesto" article that their frontman wrote is the most idiotic piece of shite I've ever read along with the Scion fest (or whatever its called) interview. Sounds like he picked up a "philosophy for dummies" book and decided that he wanted to justify his rather dull imitation black metal.

Anyways, I think applying "transcendental" to Liturgy's music is attempting to mask it's lack of respect or perhaps ignorance of what black metal entails by draping it in pseudo-philosophy.

Beyond all that I think the word transcendental itself is problematic in a genre that in many respects views regression back to the raw basics as its own form of supremacy. Liturgy want to draw away from the "negative" and primitive (at least as far as hunt hunter whatever his stupid name is claims) whereas black metal tends to revel in it and draws inspiration from it.

As for Liturgy being "transcendental black metal" musically, I think I've already expressed a few times that I don't see them as black metal to begin with or doing anything particularly spectacular. Black metal, like other music genres, has its characteristics that make it black metal...these bands try to mix post-rock riffs and wankery with tremolo picking, which is not black metal.

I don't view remaining within the black metal tradition regression or stagnation, despite what Liturgy and co. may think and overall I think the word itself sells black metal short.
Author:  Sceadugenga [ Thu May 05, 2011 11:39 pm ]
Post subject: 
Goat wrote:
PTH don't have any "cendence" about them.


:lol:
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