Metal Reviews

I do like the exact style Windir played, but I just don't consider them as good as most do. If I say a band is overrated, then that means I think they are not as good in what they do as most people think. There is a difference between "it's overrated" and "I don't like it" or "it sucks". It's a very nice argumentation you set there, but if you take it one small step further, you can't even say a band is good.

Actually, I think there is a significant difference between saying "I don't like it" versus saying "it sucks", but I have yet to find very many people who understand that. Otherwise, I agree with you here.

As for Windir, I do like "1184" a lot. I'm not as fond of the others.

-Tyrion

Yeah, there is a difference there too, something can be 100% awesome but I don't have to like it at all.

yeah, i knew already you like them ... but okay, here's way to put it.... when i heard Arntor the first time it brought up a feeling in me, the same feeling i got from looking at the stars when i was little ( and still do to some extend)... a great feeling... so natural i would love it even more and thus rate it higher, of course it has nothing to do with the music itself... i think lot's of ppl puts a certain amount of feelings into the music, but if you don't do yourself to that extend you'll natural only look at the music objectively.... and i know you didn't rate Noenum without giving extra for the feelings the music brought up in you ( and another thing that would make certain ppl angry )... ha ha

anyway... i have another explanation of the word "overrated"... imo the word overrated should be used when ppl rate certain bands higher because of their name, not their music... and/or when ppl rate music high so other ppl believe it's good because they want to have something in common and they start rate it high too till everybody loves what really should be labelled as pure crap...

unfortunatly alot of albums get underrated too because the band changed course thus dissapointing fans.. but that doesn't really make the album bad... some bands have gotten away with it because they from the beginning kept changing... probably the best defense against dissapointing fans... :roll:

Never denied that. I have the same feelings for a lot of bands.

When a lot of people rate something high although there is a lot of better stuff around in the exact same genre that they may not know of, it's overrated. The reason for their rating doesn't matter, as long as they rate it too high. Now this doesn't have anything to do with wether a band is popular or not. Why should it?

Underrated: most people don't like it, but it's actually good. They might not have given it the time to listen to, it might just be a forgotten gem, whatever the reason is, the result is the same: not as much people as the quality of the music suggests like it. We agree here, it's just that you love Windir and I like them. It may be the same thing with Noenum, you may say I overrated them, but you may not say they are overrated, since if you ask a random BM head, they don't even know them. This is not the same as with Windir, whom most BMheads know.

you take my comments too litterally, and why shouldn't you ? i do the same



I'll remember you said that for the rest of this post




in many cases this will be relative, depending on what you like and what you don't... you're forgetting ppl "feelings" for the certain band, doesn't depend on what YOU feel about them, if you get my point...



So all of sudden the personal feelings doesn't count ???



Ha ha... well... let's take a look at from another perspective to start with...will you tell me you'd rate Eminem, Dimmu Borgir or your favourite band, X, the same way if either of them released the album called Y ( it would sound the same from all the artist)... no, you wouldn't... you hate DB and Eminem so natural you lower their scores....
And if you have regular fan of band X... he really really loves this band, they're his idols... he would naturally rate all their albums higher than an observative person...



i think this goes for both of us ... if we find a good album which is limited we'll rate it higher... so... Even underground bands can be overrated....

btw... i don't love Windir anymore, i just like them too ... i just like to look at things from another point of view... i win!!! Gold !!! Goold!! ha ha ha!! I'm rich!!!


besides... a black metaller'd rate pop music pretty bad, while someone who like pop would rate black pretty bad... and why... because they don't understand each other "language"... but just because you understand some bm doesn't mean you understand it all... symbolic...

je t'aime Misha :oops:

That's why I don't write reviews on pop albums ;) What I was trying to make clear in my previous post was that I wasn't talking about overrated on microscale, but overrated on a macroscale, thus taking the general opinion and not what you and I think. The band Windir get a lot of praising, that is a fact. And if I think they don't deserve that praising because people just think a band has added value when the main man behind died, when it get praised in reviews or whatever reason (I don't care what it is, as long as it's there), then I can say it's overrated. Ofcourse it's an opinion as well, but it's also a conclusion. If Dimmu Borgir would have released Prometheus, the majority here would have hated it. The fact that Emperor released it can be counted as a factor which makes it overrated. I know you agree with that ;)

no comment ... i'm afraid of spiky clubs!

Misha & Kim are overrated anyway.....
















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i agree :evil: i'd say we hang 'em both by their balls! :twisted:

I actually follow what you guys are saying pretty well and can agree with most of it. ... I think some of what you're saying though depends on how much stock you put into other people's opinions. Do you take all opinions to be of equal weight, or do you value some more than others? How wide a range does a given person's knowledge extend within a given genre (or across all genres)?

I too think albums can be overrated and underrated, but I also think such an assessment can be dependent on whose opinions we're considering.

As for "Promethius", which was really why I wanted to respond in the first place, I disagree. I think you need to consider the bands more than people's opinions about the band (or at least consider it first). If we look at Emperor, they were a constantly evolving band. In many ways one can consider them a progressive metal band as much or more than a black metal band when you look at their career as a whole.

Dimmu Borgir, on the other hand, has pretty much always been a band that created music reflecting a hodge-podge of styles, that they never really seem to get to be anything very coherent for very long. Honestly, I don't know how you really classify them. Even "EDT", which many people think was their best album, is tough for me to accurately classify.

I simply don't think Dimmu Borgir could have released an album like "Promethius", whereas with Emperor, I think it was something that seems natural for them to have evolved to. Were Dimmu to somehow make a "Promethius" like album, I think it would probably be underrated by many because of the mass amounts of hate in certain groups of people for that band. Interestingly enough, I think a lot of people that really really like Dimmu, probably wouldn't like "Promethius" or some such album - although I suppose some would claim they did even if they didn't understand it, simply because they think Dimmu is cool or evil or something (I'm suddenly thinking about "St. Anger" for some reason). ... But, it's really hard to gauge what people are going to think and how that will apply to reality.

I hope this has been coherent and that I've said what I've meant to. Forgive me, it's late, and I'm trying to type quickly.

-Tyrion

I do not know nowhere nearly enough as some of the posters in this thread, but I love Windir, and I am not ashamed of it, as probably evidenced by the long line of my Windir reviews in these pages.

If I may recommend something that may not be great BM, but be "along the lines of Windir" I'd say try: Mithotyn, soem early Himinbjorg, early Vintersorg, Forests of Witchery by Thy Serpent, maybe early Einherjer, early Enslaved, and maybe some Summoning, although do not expect any speed.

And, for the record, I think that Omnio by In The Woods is a classic. Obviously no BM,. but a classic in post black avantgarde genre.

It's on my iRiver and keeps coming up on shuffles... I'd like to get into it, but everytime I start listening I end up skipping because I just don't dig it at all... As a result I suppose I've never really given it a fair go. Ho hum...