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 Post subject: 'Jag Panzer - Ample Destruction (#6732)'
PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 8:12 pm 
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MetalReviews Staff
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You're welcome to comment on:
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Jag Panzer - Ample Destruction
Heavy/Power/Speed Metal
Quoted: CLASSIC


Click here to see the review.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 11:28 pm 
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Indeed a classic :dio:


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 12:33 am 
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Metal King
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Yessssss.

:dio:


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 6:56 am 
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Einherjar
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MetalStorm wrote:
Indeed a classic :dio:

+1 :dio: :dio: :dio: :dio:


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 4:19 pm 
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The Commish
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who?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 4:56 pm 
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One of my favourite albums of all time :dio: , good review Thomas although i must disagree about their later efforts, with the exception of Dissident Alliance and Chain Of Command i find the rest to be some of the best US Power Metal albums around, Thane To The Throne especially is fucking killer.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 20, 2010 6:42 am 
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Einherjar
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I was going to ask if people really listen to Jag Panzer, but here you go.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 20, 2010 7:08 am 
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Einherjar

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Bizarre that this gets called a classic. Very bizarre and probably not warranted.

Jag Panzer were always a 2nd or 3rd tier player when compared to bands such as Helloween, Exciter, Running Wild etc in the Speed Metal stakes, bands such as Metal Church and Manowar in the Heavy Metal area and let alone Iron Maiden etc.

Later on when power metal became established as a genre in the mid-1990's, they were again relative nobodies when compared to Blind Guardian, Nevermore and Iced Earth,

I'm not saying that they're not a great band that has released some great albums.

But they are not really influential nor do they rate on many people's radars (heck before this review I'd never even met anyone who liked them).

Even the crusty old dudes I knew who were into metal in the 1980's and liked obscure shit like Tank, Cirith Ungol and Demon didn't have Jag Panzers in their vinyl collections.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 20, 2010 7:14 am 
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Einherjar
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I've never listened to this band before, although there name does ring a bell. I guess I know where to begin.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 20, 2010 7:52 am 
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dead1 wrote:
Bizarre that this gets called a classic. Very bizarre and probably not warranted..


Definiely warranted, and definitely not bizarre.

Oh and, you were hanging with the wrong dudes back in the eighties apparently. This is an awesome album and is definitely better than most Helloween, at the same level as most Metal Church, and definitely better than Manowar even though it never reached the same level commercially.

I did state though that I'm not the biggest fan of their newer stuff, so I'm with ya there.

I have reviewed tons of stuff that is considered cult classic, and this is one of those albums. Ample Destruction stand out in many ways and definitely is one.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 20, 2010 5:48 pm 
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metal_xxx wrote:
dead1 wrote:
Bizarre that this gets called a classic. Very bizarre and probably not warranted..


Definiely warranted, and definitely not bizarre.


+1, i cant belive people are questioning this album, seriously guys if you like Heavy / US Power Metal this is as good as it gets.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 20, 2010 9:45 pm 
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Just listening to the first few minutes of the titletrack, it's not a bad album and nowhere near as cheesy and horrible as Thane to the throne, I might have to pick it up next week.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 20, 2010 10:52 pm 
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Uhm, there's no title-track..


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 20, 2010 11:33 pm 
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Einherjar

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metal_xxx wrote:
Definiely warranted, and definitely not bizarre.

Oh and, you were hanging with the wrong dudes back in the eighties apparently.


Actually I knew them in the 000's and worshipped their massive collections of vinyl and CD's dating from the early-mid 1980's on.

metal_xxx wrote:

This is an awesome album and is definitely better than most Helloween, at the same level as most Metal Church, and definitely better than Manowar even though it never reached the same level commercially.


I haven't heard it but that doesn't mean it's not a great album. I have heard later Jag Panzer and have enjoyed it.

My point was, does it fit in the definition of a classic?

In my opinion, a classic album is one that meets some criteria:

1. It was influential on the development of metal or that subtype of metal (e.g. Possessed's influence on Death Metal with Seven Churches or Slayer with Reign In Blood).
2. It set a benchmark for that style or sound (e.g. Morbid Angel's Blessed Are The Sick or Helloween's Keeper of the Seven Keys I and II).
3. It is regarded highly by the wider Metal community or by the followers of that particular subgenre of metal (e.g. Darkthrone's Under A Funeral Moon).


So in my mind, Jag Panzer don't really meet any 3 of these criteria.

It might be a great album but is it a classic?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 20, 2010 11:48 pm 
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Granted, I see your point, but I disagree with it. Very few albums qualify as a classic by those criteria, and it would barely be necessary with a classic section on this site if those were the criteria. For me, classic albums are divided into the huge, fundamental, commercial and pioneering albums, and the more underground yet still influential, genre-defining albums like this and many others. This album meets the latter criteria in my opinion.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 12:37 am 
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Einherjar

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metal_xxx wrote:
Very few albums qualify as a classic by those criteria, and it would barely be necessary with a classic section on this site if those were the criteria.


I actually think there's quite a few when one takes into account the wide scope of metal.



metal_xxx wrote:
For me, classic albums are divided into the huge, fundamental, commercial and pioneering albums, and the more underground yet still influential, genre-defining albums like this and many others. This album meets the latter criteria in my opinion.


I agree about the underground. Hence I mentioned bands such as Possessed and Darkthrone. I'd happily add bands such as Repulsion, Autopsy and Exciter in there as well.

I just think that the Jag Panzer album is too obscure to be genre defining. In all my time near 20 years of listening to metal, I've never come across any references to their impact until this review.

Yet genre defining albums tend to get name dropped a lot, be it by the Metal journalists or by the bands themselves when citing influences.

Jag Panzer on the other hand is not mentioned at all.

I'd say the same thing about bands such as Artillery or Edge of Sanity whom I absolutely love. By Inheritance and Purgatory Afterglow are two of my favourite albums but are not genre defining or impactful enough to warrant a Classic tag.

I think to a degree it's about historical misperception. I remember when Cancer and Onslaught reformed a number of online articles were published calling them highly influential or seminal bands.

Yet they were not. They wrote some great stuff but were obscure and generally stuck and forgotten in the mire of the Thrash and Death tidal waves of the time. They were third or fourth tier players in the scene.

At the same time, I've seen bands such as WASP referred to as underground Metal bands.

So the truth is Cancer and Onslaught were nobodies while WASP was actually somewhat commercially successful and even caught the ire of Tipper Gore's PMRC.

The internet has made these bands more popular than during the time they were actually active.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 6:43 pm 
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dead1 wrote:


I agree about the underground. Hence I mentioned bands such as Possessed and Darkthrone. I'd happily add bands such as Repulsion, Autopsy and Exciter in there as well.

I just think that the Jag Panzer album is too obscure to be genre defining. In all my time near 20 years of listening to metal, I've never come across any references to their impact until this review.

Yet genre defining albums tend to get name dropped a lot, be it by the Metal journalists or by the bands themselves when citing influences.

Jag Panzer on the other hand is not mentioned at all.

I'd say the same thing about bands such as Artillery or Edge of Sanity whom I absolutely love. By Inheritance and Purgatory Afterglow are two of my favourite albums but are not genre defining or impactful enough to warrant a Classic tag.

I think to a degree it's about historical misperception. I remember when Cancer and Onslaught reformed a number of online articles were published calling them highly influential or seminal bands.

Yet they were not. They wrote some great stuff but were obscure and generally stuck and forgotten in the mire of the Thrash and Death tidal waves of the time. They were third or fourth tier players in the scene.

At the same time, I've seen bands such as WASP referred to as underground Metal bands.

So the truth is Cancer and Onslaught were nobodies while WASP was actually somewhat commercially successful and even caught the ire of Tipper Gore's PMRC.

The internet has made these bands more popular than during the time they were actually active.


You have point there. I guess "Masterpiece" would be a more appropriate term for an album that is a must have, but not that influential.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 6:53 pm 
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Ist Krieg
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Symphony of Terror has the best chorus.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2010 8:27 pm 
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Einherjar

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I disagree, i think Harder than Steel has the best chorus....also one of the best lines in heavy metal history. "Sweat dripping lords of the metal kind."


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 29, 2010 6:07 am 
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Metal Fighter
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dead1 wrote:
metal_xxx wrote:
Very few albums qualify as a classic by those criteria, and it would barely be necessary with a classic section on this site if those were the criteria.


I actually think there's quite a few when one takes into account the wide scope of metal.



metal_xxx wrote:
For me, classic albums are divided into the huge, fundamental, commercial and pioneering albums, and the more underground yet still influential, genre-defining albums like this and many others. This album meets the latter criteria in my opinion.


I agree about the underground. Hence I mentioned bands such as Possessed and Darkthrone. I'd happily add bands such as Repulsion, Autopsy and Exciter in there as well.

I just think that the Jag Panzer album is too obscure to be genre defining. In all my time near 20 years of listening to metal, I've never come across any references to their impact until this review.

Yet genre defining albums tend to get name dropped a lot, be it by the Metal journalists or by the bands themselves when citing influences.

Jag Panzer on the other hand is not mentioned at all.

I'd say the same thing about bands such as Artillery or Edge of Sanity whom I absolutely love. By Inheritance and Purgatory Afterglow are two of my favourite albums but are not genre defining or impactful enough to warrant a Classic tag.

I think to a degree it's about historical misperception. I remember when Cancer and Onslaught reformed a number of online articles were published calling them highly influential or seminal bands.

Yet they were not. They wrote some great stuff but were obscure and generally stuck and forgotten in the mire of the Thrash and Death tidal waves of the time. They were third or fourth tier players in the scene.

At the same time, I've seen bands such as WASP referred to as underground Metal bands.

So the truth is Cancer and Onslaught were nobodies while WASP was actually somewhat commercially successful and even caught the ire of Tipper Gore's PMRC.

The internet has made these bands more popular than during the time they were actually active.


Good point. I think the term "hidden gem" applies to many of those awesome, but obscure releases.


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