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PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2005 3:58 pm 
Seinfeld26 wrote:
Holy_Terror wrote:
Suing is for Megadeth and Metallica, and I dont give a fuck how rich they are, and you shoudnt either cuz they sure as hell don't give a shit about your life, or whether you buy their new album, even though you probably would because they're sooo rich..how could it not be awesome. Talk about unhealthy attitude, I would equate you with a single animal in a larger herd of animals marching along to someone elses tune, but you're totally happy cuz you think its your own original idea. But I'm rockin the boat here, I dont want to destroy your comfort zone or your well informed opinions.


I doubt there are too many bands, mainstream or underground, that seriously care about our lives and whether we buy their albums. Well, actually, they probably DO care about whether we buy their albums. Whether a lot of metal fans like it or not, MOST bands (mainstream or underground) are largely in the music biz to make money. Otherwise, why aren't their albums and concert tours free? Look at Slayer and all those DVDs/boxed sets they've been releasing this past year and a half. You think they're releasing them mainly because they love their fans so much? Nope, they're releasing them to keep their paychecks going until their new album is released. I'm not saying these bands don't want to please their fans. I'm saying they aren't nearly as "fan friendly" as a lot of metalheads think they are.


agreed... I remember staying out of a concert hall for hours to see Sodom members, get an autograph & have a little chat (I was 18 then, in 1989)... they actually sent the drummer (don't remember his name) while taking off from the back exit just stopping with the tourbus to take him... call it respect for the fans... :evil:

but I had nice surprises too like playing football with Iron Maiden (well Steve Harris & their roadies actually), chating with Tokyo Blade or King's X members etc... but, no doubt about it, they're also playing metal to make a living out of it !


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2005 5:55 pm 
Offline
Einherjar

Joined: Wed Dec 08, 2004 9:49 pm
Posts: 2507
Location: Michigan
My whole point is that you used how rich a band is an album sales and fans to try and tell me that Praying mantis and Satan are not as good as metallica....when in fact they are better. Satan is definately not a second rate band. Their brand if intricate power metal was something completely new in Metal, they took the Judas Priest/Maiden formula and made it more complicated and thrashier...and they did this before metallica. So who cares how popular they are, the point is they are better more innovative musicians, and thats all that matters to me. So next time you try to convince me that my opinions suck, use something other than shallow materialistic views. That is my point.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2005 6:03 pm 
Holy_Terror wrote:
My whole point is that you used how rich a band is an album sales and fans to try and tell me that Praying mantis and Satan are not as good as metallica....when in fact they are better. Satan is definately not a second rate band. Their brand if intricate power metal was something completely new in Metal, they took the Judas Priest/Maiden formula and made it more complicated and thrashier...and they did this before metallica. So who cares how popular they are, the point is they are better more innovative musicians, and thats all that matters to me. So next time you try to convince me that my opinions suck, use something other than shallow materialistic views. That is my point.


3 things :

1) I said Metallica is a rich band just to show you if they were real plagiarists someone would have taken advantage of it

2) I think album sales do show the quality of the band as long as the band is not a marketed product... at least you can agree 1983/1986 Metallica was not a market product, don't you think ?

3) you can say a band is cult and misunderstood avant-gardists, but they'll remain second rate in terms of popularity... I didn't say it was fair but that's how it is anyway !

PS : actually I like more Angel Witch or Blitzkrieg than Satan :twisted:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2005 6:08 pm 
Offline
Einherjar

Joined: Wed Dec 08, 2004 9:49 pm
Posts: 2507
Location: Michigan
I dont think that you understand how little I care about popularity....cuz I dont, and Raven is British not Canadian...try again.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2005 6:10 pm 
Holy_Terror wrote:
Raven is British not Canadian...try again.


:oops: don't know why I've always thought they were canadians... sorry 'bout that ! btw, All For One is a killer album !


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2005 6:13 pm 
Offline
Einherjar

Joined: Wed Dec 08, 2004 9:49 pm
Posts: 2507
Location: Michigan
you probably thought they were canadian because of the Hockey Outfits they wear, and Wacko's helmet, others have done this, I too thought this at one time, and yes All For One is a great album, I however like Rock Til you Drop best.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2005 6:41 pm 
yeah, that should be the hockey stuff, I remeber wacko had a red & white equipment... not that easy to play drums that way !

when was Rock Til You Drop released, i have to admit I have no memories of this album... I'll try to check it out...

and about Raven, one of my guilty pleasures is their 1986 album The Pack is Back, utterly cheesy but so fun to listen to ! :D


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2005 6:42 pm 
Offline
Einherjar

Joined: Wed Dec 08, 2004 9:49 pm
Posts: 2507
Location: Michigan
Rock Til You Drop was in the early early 80;s...I want to say 81 or 82.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2005 8:54 pm 
Holy_Terror wrote:
There are people like me who have noticed the slew of bands Metallica has blatantly ripped off...


am I being nice or what ? :D

http://www.megarock-radio.com/modules.p ... le&sid=929


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2005 11:26 pm 
Offline
Einherjar

Joined: Wed Dec 08, 2004 9:49 pm
Posts: 2507
Location: Michigan
Yeah this isnt the only band they ripped off. I have a theory about this...by acknowleding and covering bands such as Savage and Diamond head, they could essentially cover up the use of more obscure bands like Holocaust and Satan. You know what they say, the best place to hide is out in the open. And its not that they rip off whole songs, its little bits here and there. But I notice small stuff like that.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2005 11:40 pm 
not that I completly agree on this but I did, indeed, heard a rip off of Genesis 1970's Tresspass album on Master Of Puppets... so, okay, maybe your partly right but admit those fvkkers are clever... they steal just enough to make their music sound good but not enough to be accused of plagiary... but i'm pretty sure it just for a few songs....


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2005 12:26 am 
The Immortal Emokid wrote:
not that I completly agree on this but I did, indeed, heard a rip off of Genesis 1970's Tresspass album on Master Of Puppets... so, okay, maybe your partly right but admit those fvkkers are clever... they steal just enough to make their music sound good but not enough to be accused of plagiary... but i'm pretty sure it just for a few songs....


Maybe they were influenced by them? So that inturn made them sound like them in some songs.

Confirm/Deny?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2005 12:33 am 
Husker wrote:
The Immortal Emokid wrote:
not that I completly agree on this but I did, indeed, heard a rip off of Genesis 1970's Tresspass album on Master Of Puppets... so, okay, maybe your partly right but admit those fvkkers are clever... they steal just enough to make their music sound good but not enough to be accused of plagiary... but i'm pretty sure it just for a few songs....


Maybe they were influenced by them? So that inturn made them sound like them in some songs.

Confirm/Deny?


that's my opinion but I can guess that's not Holy Terror's... :wink:

did you download the Bleak House song ?... the intro is quite similar to Fade to Black as the song structure is but I can't tell for sure if they "transformed" an old NWOBHM in a cool thrashing balad or if it's just an influence or even some kind of homage... if they did steal the song, they can at least be credited with pretty good lyrics (not their best though) & very good arrangements skills...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2005 2:10 am 
Offline
Einherjar

Joined: Wed Dec 08, 2004 9:49 pm
Posts: 2507
Location: Michigan
Its not Fade to Black that it sounds like, Its Sanitarium. Fade to Black just reminds me of Black Sabbath.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2005 2:14 am 
Holy_Terror wrote:
Its not Fade to Black that it sounds like, Its Sanitarium. Fade to Black just reminds me of Black Sabbath.


:oops: I think one song & I write the name of another one... I must be very very tired...

so fade to balck isn't a rip off if it only reminds you of Black Sabbath...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2005 4:18 am 
Offline
Einherjar

Joined: Wed Dec 08, 2004 9:49 pm
Posts: 2507
Location: Michigan
a little tooo much like Black Sabbath. he he he.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2005 4:19 am 
Offline
Einherjar

Joined: Wed Dec 08, 2004 9:49 pm
Posts: 2507
Location: Michigan
Megadeth is guilty too. Lucretia on Rust in Peace sounds exactly like the song "Blades of Steel" on Satan's Court in the Act. So both Me/tallica/gadeth copied this band.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2005 4:28 am 
Holy_Terror wrote:
a little tooo much like Black Sabbath. he he he.


the thing is I'm sure you like bands with huuuuuge Black Sabbath influence... so why always pointing at Metallica ? because they're sell-outs and major asses ? sure ! that can be a good reason but they weren't sell-outs untill the Black Album... and only became major asses with the whole Napster controversy... but in case you think they've always been a fraud, some kind of talentless thieves, that means Clif was a fraud too...

is that what you mean ?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2005 3:04 pm 
The Immortal Emokid wrote:
Holy_Terror wrote:
a little tooo much like Black Sabbath. he he he.


the thing is I'm sure you like bands with huuuuuge Black Sabbath influence... so why always pointing at Metallica ? because they're sell-outs and major asses ? sure ! that can be a good reason but they weren't sell-outs untill the Black Album... and only became major asses with the whole Napster controversy... but in case you think they've always been a fraud, some kind of talentless thieves, that means Clif was a fraud too...

is that what you mean ?


Actually, on a somewhat unrelated note, am I the only person in this world who somehow gets the impression that Cliff Burton wouldn't be hailed the greatest bass player of all time if he didn't die and Metallica didn't "go downhill" since then? I'm guessing back when he was alive, nobody gave a shit about him! But now that he's dead and Metallica is what they are today, everybody's kissing his ass and cannonizing him.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2005 3:41 pm 
Seinfeld26 wrote:
Actually, on a somewhat unrelated note, am I the only person in this world who somehow gets the impression that Cliff Burton wouldn't be hailed the greatest bass player of all time if he didn't die and Metallica didn't "go downhill" since then? I'm guessing back when he was alive, nobody gave a shit about him! But now that he's dead and Metallica is what they are today, everybody's kissing his ass and cannonizing him.


you cannot be more wrong ! first, Cliff has always been my fav' Metallica member from the moment I realized how much of a true metal head he was (in a interview in 1983 !)... then, he has always been a great bass player (remember Anesthesia/Pulling Teeth, his great instrumental on Kill'Em All ?) & a nice fellow too.... well, I won't say he is the greatest since I think there's no point doing this but he was definitely among the 5 or 10 best bass players in the metal history and I'm not talking technical skills (which he had) but what my heart and ears tell me... + , imo, he has always been a big influence on Metallica's music (particullary on Master of Puppets? The Thing That Should Not Be... Great !!!)....

a few years later (on the Load tour in fact) Jason became my new fav' Metallica member because he was the trOO one too ! now, all that's left is a bunch of greedy posers... Cliff wouldn't have liked it ! :evil:


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