Metal Reviews

*YA!

Mallcore and Metalcore are not valid forms of metal music. I agree that there are certain bands that may make that claim debatable, but overall I do not consider it metal. The kids that listen to that stuff are, i believe, generally kids. I am 25 now, but when i started listening to metal it was the classics. Maiden, Manowar, Priest and then onto things like iced earth and testament. These bands got me started in metal and then I, on my own, delved deeper into the metal world. I made discoveries and realized what i like and dont like. These kids get so much fed to them that they dont have to look for anything. If i was inundated with shitty metal when i was first starting out maybe i would listen to shit now too. You cant find the good stuff until you know what is bad and you dont know that you are listening to bad stuff unless you have a point of reference. These kids dont have that reference. They dont know the ATG or Maiden, or Carcass and you really cant go from Cradle of Filth and Avenged Sevenfold to Spiral Architect.

*nods head in approval*

Utter rubbish. Just becuase you started with Maiden et al doesn't mean that is the only way into metal! I started through Rage Against The Machine and similar hard rock bands, why not through Chimaira or Still Remains? As I said before, there are magazines and radio shows that people do listen to, and eventually they will explore, whether told to or not. And I think you'll find Maiden are a very popular group with them, and you can't tell me ATG are heavier than, say, Chimaira!

..harshness != heaviness

do you actually like metal?

Yea I like some bands that do it, Front Line Assembly comes to mind first, but its kind of annoying knowing pretty much exactly when they're going to switch riffs (and what kind of riff will be next) without having heard the song before.

If they can listen to Chimaira, they can listen to Burzum. I'd go far as saying Burzum's less heavy (and less harsh!).

And yes, amongst other things...

Chimaira are def. not as heavy as ATG. Maybe instead of using the word heavy I sould have used the word dense. Music by bands like Chimaira is not dense. It does not have layers and depth. I also am not saying that Maiden is the only gateway to metal. I know people that got into metal through Rush. Actually i believe Rush is an easier jump into metal than Chimaira. Chimaira is loud and harsh and they splah melody in somethimes. They are also fairly simple, and they like most bands of there genre pander to what the mallcore kids want to hear instead of forcing them to expand their musical minds. Chaimaira and Shadows Fall and all of those bands, while they can make decent music somethimes, just arent metal in the true sense. They dont have the attitude. I want an elitist band. I want metal that will impress me and challenge me. Chimaira isnt challenging anyone. Bands like Maiden are real easy to take the next step with. Chimaira doesnt prepare you fo r anything except generic shit.

You may want more, but - random death metal example - Cannibal Corpse. Def. not something for newcomers, yet I wouldn't say it's hard to get into once you've used to heaviness.

I think there's a single barrier to get past in terms of extremity, the first time you hear it it hurts your ears, and you go back to Madonna or whatever in relief, but persevere, get used to it and you'll find many things, subtleties there. Elitistism comes after, but there is definately an order to metal that few people can skip.

I don't know, I saw it coming on Whoracle. Colony was concrete proof of what was to come, for me anyway.

Zad, I believe in the order that cant really be skipped as well. I do agree with your Cannibal Corpse statement. I think maybe we are looking at the same issue in different ways though. I am not saying that the extremeness of the music is what they kids need to get used to. It is the off-beat timing, the crazy vocal lines, the tempo changes, the mood changes, the atmosphere. Once you get used to harsh or death vocals, you can listen to it in any genre. It is the complicated, layered music that takes time, and metalcore and mallcore is pretty much the only genres in metal that have none of this. Play Awaken the Guardian for a chimaira fan and he will have a seizure.

You're being a little harsh to metalcore. What of bands such as The Ocean, or Psyopus, with crazy timings there? The Dillinger Escape Plan are an excellent example, I find them harder to listen to than most tech-death. The Locust! And not just metalcore and mallcore kids, you play that for a power metaller, see the reaction there. Is that any reason to look down on them?

you play DEP to a power metaller and they'd say "fucking DEP" and go back to their Revenge of the Trollslaying Hammerdragonica.

(slight exaggeration)

I think the point is that metalcore and metal fans wouldn't overlap so much if the media or concert promoters had any brains. and relative levels of harshness aren't necessarily an indicator as to what an individual's tastes are.. I can endure and enjoy Merzbow's Pulse Demon but I'd turn off anything by Hatebreed almost instantly.

You have a point with the Power Metal fan, because I used to be that guy. I probably am being too harsh on metalcore but that isnt just about the music. it is abot the fans of metalcore. One - I find most metalcore fans to be young and image concious. It is a starting point at best in my eyes, yet I know i progressed through the metal genres rather rapidly. Ignorance is no excuse for stupididty. If someone tells me that so and so band is great I listen to them and then decide. These kids really thnik the Chimairas of the world are the end-all be-all of metal. They dont have the desire to seek out anything different or older or more complex. You bring up bands like Dillinger Escape Plan as technical. I agree, they are technical and sometimes good. To me, and this is a personal opinion, I dont feel or hear a metal sprit from their music. It is not an art with them. I realize that not everyone would agree with my tastes and that is fine. I just dont get that special feeling from these bands and i cant rlate to teir fanbase-which i generally consider a bunch of kids lost in the trendiness of the scene or a bunch of sheep. I own Chimaira albums and Shadows Fll Albums. I dont see anything wrong with the metal world cherrypicking the best of metalcore. I do se something wrong with considering metalcore a valid form of metal that can stand on its own. Black, thrash, Death, power, prog, metalcore. It doesnt even sound right.

I just seem to equate the metalcore bands of today as equals to the Hair bands of the eighties. They are sometimes fun to listen too, but they arent contributing to the genre as a whole. f Brett Michaels was starting out now and in a metal band, it would be a metalcore band.

really? I equate metalcore with new wave, haha, but I guess they both had their scenesters.. I'm kinda glad I didn't musically live through the 80s because all the great prog bands went insane at around the same time and that would have caused my head to explode, haha. I hope that sort of musical wasteland isn't coming back to haunt us..

from your list of genres you forgot the most important two: heavy and doom!

I'm afraid I'm going to contradict you. A lot of people here started with Slipknot and Cradle Of Filth, or similar bands, just like me. I do like Maiden a lot now though, but don't praise metal to high. Most Thrash is structure-wise not really more challenging than the average pop-song. Most death and black metal doesn't even get to the point of inserting structures at all. I started on CoF, Slipknot and other crap, but it definitely got me a LOT further than that.

ah damn you're right, guess which band brought me to heavy music.. :roll: :oops:

Manowar initially scared me away, I didn't like the posturing. the only thing that really saves me is that I always liked Black Sabbath and Rush..

it really is up to the individual. if they need more they will seek out more. I know i am generalizing but i just feel that more metalcore people stay stagnant musically than other genres. I do agree that a good amount of metal is simple and not outstanding at all. My personal prefence leads me to the progressive metal side of things. Most of the bands i listen to are highly technical and some are quite innovative. I dont listen to much death or thrash because i find it very generic. i like the new Kreator album but it didnt change my life. Its good ol' thrash. I cant listen to grindcore even though i have tried because i dont see anything special or intelligent in it. I have a very slanted view that it takes a certain intellect and willingness to be different to elevate your musical taste above the common bullshit within the metal world and without. I have read many of your posts and can tell that you possess that intellect and that is why you rose above slipknot. An average person wont rise above it though without the proper guidance. On the other hand though - to answer myself - who the fuck wants them.

keep in mind that i grew up in Brooklyn, New York...the musical wastleand of shit people and shit music. My perceptions and expectations of the masses is pretty low because of it.