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PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 6:35 am 
hellraiser_xes wrote:
Sometimes more often than not, we're stuck between choosing the individual or the quality he posseses. Yes, Kiske has been an asshole, no doubt. But on the other hand, he has contributed a lot to the metal scene. Metal to me, wouldn't be metal today if not for what he did with Helloween. It's just sad that he's a prick.

The problem for Kiske is three fold:

1. He doesn't want to write metal music anymore.
2. The metal community on a whole is still very interested in him.
3. They're still interested in him because he hasn't left the metal community.

There are a ton of artists that simply walk away from metal or rock, or whatever; Kiske has done that, but only partially, with his music. He hasn't closed the door on metal completely. Sadly, the metal community is ruthless and attacked him. When he formed Supared they shit all over him. So Kiske has fired back on occasion. He's only human.

If anyone thinks he's not a fan of metal music you're being naive. He's a fan of metal music, but has no desire to write metal music! Is that so hard a concept to grasp? It's really not. But everyone equates his desire to write acoustic pop music to him despising metal, so when he does a guest vocal spot on a metal CD he is slammed and hounded constantly, and any of us would get very irritated. I'm guilty of it, too. I talked shit about him, but when you take everything into consideration it's really not hard to understand where he's coming from. How would you like to have an interview set up when you release a new album, a non-metal album, and all the interviewer wants to do is talk metal; all they want to do is talk about Helloween, etc. It would piss anyone off.

No matter what he has said, you do remember him saying he would sing with Helloween at Wacken a few years ago, right? He's not closed the door on metal completely, just most of the way.

Below are the words that most everyone remembers. Clearly the man is torn, you can read it loud and clear. He was staying in the game for the wrong reasons and he lashed out, frustrated. You can't fault him for that. He's not a metalhead. Plain and simple. Maybe we should let him be?

Quote:
Former HELLOWEEN singer Michael Kiske has issued the following statement regarding the break-up of his SUPARED project:

"I officially like to announce my departure from the hard rock music scene now. I simply don't fit. Especially on the last record I did experiment around again with hard rock sounds, trying to keep things interesting for me, but it doesn't lead me to anything. I guess subconsciously I was working with these sounds again trying to get more in peace with my past somehow, but it simply isn't me anymore. The extremely bad record sales of the SUPARED debut was the final bit and answer I needed for this decision. My interpretation of this sort of music doesn't get accepted. So I don't want to waste my and other people's time anymore. Big thanx to everybody who supported this band-project and me! I am sorry if you are disappointed now that I have to finally close this chapter for good, but I am not the person who goes on forever with something that is not meant to be. A big 'fuck off' goes out to everybody who only burned or downloaded SUPARED instead of buying the CD. You may say you love music, but all you do is destroying the financial existence of bands and musicians. People like you make sure that all free music that is not just a fake set-up by the industry will die out completely. The same 'fuck off' goes out to all smart-ass critics who can only treat music as a stinking product to please the market. Instead of trying to understand a musician's work or the mission of art in general, you think you can dictate musicians what they have to do, misusing your power over the public opinion. As long as artists fight against your stupid kind, there's hope. If your type wins, there's no future for the real thing. People like you don't deserve any real music!

"For a number of years now there has been a strong conflict in my chest. A completely different conflict than most people would guess. Every part of me says: no more! I made myself physically ill making this last record. That says it all. And as everyone can see, it leads to nothing worth it. All I want to say is: Hard rock isn't my music anymore. I can't cope with its mentality, ideals or musical language. I have found much better artistic arguments, and certainly much higher morals than what the metal scene has to offer. And you won't hear anything metal like anymore coming from my address for the rest of my life. I will also lead no more useless discussions anymore with people around the world about things they simply don't have a sense for. It's a waste of energy and time. People don't necessarily become wise when they get old: an asshole will only become an old asshole. In the same way young people [are not] necessarily alive just because they are young. Many people are spiritually dead already as teenagers. And brutalizing music, that makes us dumb, numb and morally def does its part. If you don't agree with me, and don't like my talk, fine! To each [his] own. It's absolutely right for me. I say it again: I simply don't fit into the metal scene. I am not what the scene wants, and I don't want the wimpy artistic truth this scene has to offer. I didn't even really fit into HELLOWEEN as a person. I was always a stranger in that band, because I wasn't at all like them. I liked metal in the eighties, and still like some records, but I was never really the typical metalhead. Even in my hardest metal days I was always just as much listening to U2, ELVIS, BEATLES, EURYTHMICS, KATE BUSH, PAT BENATAR, classical music and so on. What a heresy, right? But I am happy that I never isolated myself in metal. I was always open to anything good in music. And believe it or not: I am totally convinced that's the reason for my success as a singer in metal. My approach was different! Metal is certainly not any law for me. My love for God, Christ, free aht and Humanity is. We've got to do what we believe in. If you don't follow your convictions, you're dead. A person that doesn't follow his believes, or doesn't even have any ideals or morals is just a pitiful hollow existents in my eyes, no matter how smart or modern that person might see itself. I wouldn't trust someone that has no believes for a minute. There's nothing holy for him or her.

"As Carlos Santana said in an interview: All that matters is what we do in our life's with our energy, light and love.

"That's all.

"Peace!"


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 10:47 am 
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He was quite incensed over the matter that SUPARED did poorly because of the ripping off through downloading. I see his point. Downloading has seriously made the scene deteorate. And I feel guilty because I download as well.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 1:25 pm 
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Well, I've seen him specifically state that he dislikes metal guitar sounds and that playing them is immature and naive, so I don't know how anyone can say he still "likes" metal. The problem is that he doesn't have a career without his metal fanbase, so he tries to walk on both sides. He tries to portray his convictions against metal music, but he also does metal guest spots and promotes his other music to the metal crowd in order to garner hope for some sales success. It's really sad actually. I personally think he needs to be in or out. If he wants to be out of metal like he's said, he needs to stay out. If his solo stuff doesn't sell after that, it's time for a new career.


Last edited by derncare on Fri Oct 20, 2006 3:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 2:34 pm 
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My exact problem with Kiske is that he tries to walk both sides.

He writes non-Metal alums that are marketed to the Metal crowd, and his constant guesting leaves ties that remind people of who he is and what he has done/can potentially do.

If he would simply sever all ties and attempt to market his music to the right crowd, I would have no problem with him. But when you have CDs put in the Metal section in stores, promo packs sent to Metal webzies and mags, it becomes clear that Kiske clearly wants his non-Metal music to be bought by Metal fans on the basis of his name. And then he has the cheek to complain when they don't eat it up?


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 3:29 pm 
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Radagast wrote:
My exact problem with Kiske is that he tries to walk both sides.

He writes non-Metal alums that are marketed to the Metal crowd, and his constant guesting leaves ties that remind people of who he is and what he has done/can potentially do.

If he would simply sever all ties and attempt to market his music to the right crowd, I would have no problem with him. But when you have CDs put in the Metal section in stores, promo packs sent to Metal webzies and mags, it becomes clear that Kiske clearly wants his non-Metal music to be bought by Metal fans on the basis of his name. And then he has the cheek to complain when they don't eat it up?


+1

Basically what I wanted to say worded much better :D


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 6:51 pm 
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Eyesore wrote:
If anyone thinks he's not a fan of metal music you're being naive. He's a fan of metal music, but has no desire to write metal music! Is that so hard a concept to grasp? It's really not. But everyone equates his desire to write acoustic pop music to him despising metal, so when he does a guest vocal spot on a metal CD he is slammed and hounded constantly, and any of us would get very irritated.


Michael Kiske on his Myspace blog wrote:
You can hardly visit any MySpace side of a heavy-metal fan today without finding images of death, violence or satanism. From it's early years on with AC/DC's >Highway to Hell< and >Hells Bells<, up to the soul raping brutality of Slipknot, Korn or Death- and Black-Metal, to the intellectual-blinding preachings for the Antichrist of Marilyn Manson: the heavy-metal-scene always had a strong death, devil-worshiping and insanity- and inhumanity-glorifying message. And being a godless materialist is the ''wisdom'' of most heavy-metal-minds today. And it's all NOT just a problem of Death- and Black Metal; it goes through classic heavy-metal too. Just look at the lyrics of Manowar, or see the first Metallica album 'Kill 'em all' (A hammer and blood), even look the name HELLoween, or have a look at my favorite metal band Iron Maiden, almost all their covers clearly glorify violence and death! Or what does Judas Priest mean? Judas was the Priest that betrayed Jesus Christ etc. And this goes on through almost all in metal. If you don't like to take that serious, fine! But I do now, because I know how much art influences the human soul (and I am a Christian). This scene is far too much sending out a message and an understanding of art that is not good and not mine. Thanks to my life and fate I have found a much better truth over the years and I have learned to take all this as serious as it really is. And even if you leave out all spiritual matters that I'm talking about: just the typical dogmatic, negative and destructive way of how art and free music gets treated by this music-scene so often is totally unacceptable in my eyes. Metal always brags about how ''true'' it's supposed to be, but it really only stands for the lamest commercialism and art-slavery just in it's own very hypocrite way. The same morals just a different 'show'. Here comes the truth my dear: FREE CREATIVITY IS A HEAVY-METAL-CRIME! Musicians who have the guts to express themselves freely through their music and allow their music to change over the years (like it should if they change as persons) and without caring about serving the metal-market or how ''hard'' an album is etc. receive lots of hatred and devastating reviews. And market-orientated metal-wimps who only copy their bestselling records forever get big applaus by many. That's ''heavy-metal-truth'', not mine; it may be loud, but it's empty and lame. But in reality: if anyone truly loves Country or Pop or Jazz or Classical-music and he or her does it honestly, freely and with passion, THAT'S TRUE ART!


I think Kiske himself contradicts your statements about him being a metal fan and not despising the genre, Eyesore. Your argumentation is flawed. Radagast, on the other side, seems to have hit the spot.

I actually think it's sad to see the way the man thinks. He's dissing Judas Priest and Iron Maiden, even Helloween... this is what too much religion will do to your brain, I guess. That, and the frustration of insuccess. I think it's pretty clear.

Btw, I laughed my ass off at the "soul raping brutality of Slipknot and Korn". That was precious.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 6:55 pm 
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What a complete cocklord. Yeah, there's no free expression in Metal, Mike. Whatevers.

*goes off to listen to Devin*


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 7:53 pm 
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When I read those big quotes from Kiske, I laugh so hard at how much he tries to sound profound when in reality, he contradicts himself repeatedly and says basically nothing.

To be honest, I don't think he even believes half his own crap. I think he's basically the Terrell Owens of Rock/Metal. No publicity is bad publicity. He runs his mouth, we all talk about it, and his next release gets more attention.

In other words, I'm continuing to feed him just by writing this, and the only way to end all the Kiske insanity is to stop responding to his nonsense...

...like that'll happen when people who recognize still continue to be guilty :lol:

ESPN still runs entire 30-minute broadcasts about how Terrell Owens is only doing stunts to get attention and that everyone should stop giving it to him :rolleyes:


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 21, 2006 1:02 am 
Does Kiske market himself to the metal crowd, or does his labels do that? Here were have a guy who constantly talks about how he does not want to be a metal musician, but he then markets himself to these people? No way. It's a label move.

I said a long time ago they're marketing Kiske to the wrong people. His music would probably do well in another market, but his name has no meaning anywhere else but in the metal world. Catch-22.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 21, 2006 1:44 am 
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I think it's a bit of both. Kiske chooses to keep doing metal guest appearances.

This is the same guy who in the previous quote bashed the "image" of metal, inlcuding his former band's name, and yet is about to put out a CD that will have that name "Helloween" on the cover. He's a clown.

Truth be told though, I still enjoy his guest spots because I still like his voice, but as much as I want to just let it go and ignore his attitude, I can't. It just seems like such a betrayal to me that he shows so little respect to the genre and people that gave him an opportunity for a music career. He could leave metal, and even say he doesn't like it, without being an ass. Instead, he chooses to be one.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 21, 2006 4:35 am 
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derncare wrote:
I think it's a bit of both. Kiske chooses to keep doing metal guest appearances.

This is the same guy who in the previous quote bashed the "image" of metal, inlcuding his former band's name, and yet is about to put out a CD that will have that name "Helloween" on the cover. He's a clown.

Truth be told though, I still enjoy his guest spots because I still like his voice, but as much as I want to just let it go and ignore his attitude, I can't. It just seems like such a betrayal to me that he shows so little respect to the genre and people that gave him an opportunity for a music career. He could leave metal, and even say he doesn't like it, without being an ass. Instead, he chooses to be one.


Indeed he is.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 21, 2006 7:07 am 
derncare wrote:
I think it's a bit of both. Kiske chooses to keep doing metal guest appearances.

This is the same guy who in the previous quote bashed the "image" of metal, inlcuding his former band's name, and yet is about to put out a CD that will have that name "Helloween" on the cover. He's a clown.

Truth be told though, I still enjoy his guest spots because I still like his voice, but as much as I want to just let it go and ignore his attitude, I can't. It just seems like such a betrayal to me that he shows so little respect to the genre and people that gave him an opportunity for a music career. He could leave metal, and even say he doesn't like it, without being an ass. Instead, he chooses to be one.

I don't think he chooses to be an ass. I think he is almost forced to be one. His guest appearances are totally separate and have no relevance stacked up against his solo stuff. Apples and oranges.

Just look at this thread! It's like this all over the net. You surely wouldn't like it.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 21, 2006 9:40 am 
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Eyesore wrote:
derncare wrote:
I think it's a bit of both. Kiske chooses to keep doing metal guest appearances.

This is the same guy who in the previous quote bashed the "image" of metal, inlcuding his former band's name, and yet is about to put out a CD that will have that name "Helloween" on the cover. He's a clown.

Truth be told though, I still enjoy his guest spots because I still like his voice, but as much as I want to just let it go and ignore his attitude, I can't. It just seems like such a betrayal to me that he shows so little respect to the genre and people that gave him an opportunity for a music career. He could leave metal, and even say he doesn't like it, without being an ass. Instead, he chooses to be one.

I don't think he chooses to be an ass. I think he is almost forced to be one. His guest appearances are totally separate and have no relevance stacked up against his solo stuff. Apples and oranges.

Just look at this thread! It's like this all over the net. You surely wouldn't like it.


You really think so? I mean, he's guesting on those songs by his own will, rite? Or is he under pressure by some label?


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 21, 2006 1:03 pm 
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Does anyone know where this interview with Kiske talking about Judas at the Opera is located?

I want to read it!


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 21, 2006 1:09 pm 
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I don't think it's label pressure, Tobi and Kiske gave the same story for how Judas at the Opera came together, and it seems there was no real label involvement.

I don't believe for one second he's pushed into anything anyway. He draws the media to himself by acting the way he does. During the interviews when his first solo album came out, he could have simply said, "I had a good time in Helloween, but it's time for something else. I wanted to try something new outside of metal."

That would have been respectable, and none of us would be here today talking about it. We'd still talk about what we like or don't like about his solo material, but we wouldn't be attacking his character.

He chose to turn it into an anti-metal crusade with no help from anyone else. He wasn't forced into it. He contradicts himself so much that it's obvious he can't possibly believe half of what he's saying anyway, so why is he doing it then? I've read hundreds of his interviews. I kept looking for a reason to change my mind and be able to defend him because I really wanted to for a long time. I gave up.

Funny note: I read an interview where he said he doesn't do his metal guest vocals as "Michael Kiske" because "Michael Kiske" has nothing to do with heavy metal :lol:


Last edited by derncare on Sat Oct 21, 2006 1:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 21, 2006 1:30 pm 
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Nightmare1z wrote:
Does anyone know where this interview with Kiske talking about Judas at the Opera is located?

I want to read it!


I can't find it anymore :mad:


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 21, 2006 5:42 pm 
hellraiser_xes wrote:
Eyesore wrote:
derncare wrote:
I think it's a bit of both. Kiske chooses to keep doing metal guest appearances.

This is the same guy who in the previous quote bashed the "image" of metal, inlcuding his former band's name, and yet is about to put out a CD that will have that name "Helloween" on the cover. He's a clown.

Truth be told though, I still enjoy his guest spots because I still like his voice, but as much as I want to just let it go and ignore his attitude, I can't. It just seems like such a betrayal to me that he shows so little respect to the genre and people that gave him an opportunity for a music career. He could leave metal, and even say he doesn't like it, without being an ass. Instead, he chooses to be one.

I don't think he chooses to be an ass. I think he is almost forced to be one. His guest appearances are totally separate and have no relevance stacked up against his solo stuff. Apples and oranges.

Just look at this thread! It's like this all over the net. You surely wouldn't like it.

You really think so? I mean, he's guesting on those songs by his own will, rite? Or is he under pressure by some label?

Didn't I just say they're two separate things? I said he's forced to be an ass, not forced to guest on metal albums. If you can to this site and every day people were talking shit about you I'm sure you'd react in a very negative way. Not only does Kiske have to deal with that, but this is his career we're talking about, not just the internet, you know?


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 21, 2006 6:01 pm 
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I guess it's a "which came first, the chicken or the egg?" debate, since some believe that the attitude brought about the negative attention while some believe the attention brought about the attitude. :P

Oh, well...there are still alot of people in this world who get alot of negative press and manage to keep their cool. That's the press's job to find the dirt. No celebrity is without a million internet forum haters either. It's his job as a celebrity who wants to record albums and make a career for himself to deal with it. That's the price you pay. No one is ever forced to be an ass. The "immaturity" he accuses metal musicians of having is more displayed by him than anyone he's placed that label on. This so called "spiritualist" can't even control his own emotions.

When hundreds of fans bashed ANATO for years on Blind Guardian's own website forum, the band didn't start lashing out at everybody.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 21, 2006 6:14 pm 
It all depends on how you handle things, of course. Maybe Kiske should avoid the internet? Rich Ward of Stuck Mojo just posted this on his website:

The Duke wrote:
Every time that "?" has a "Rich sucks outburst", a day later I start receiving dozens of emails and messages from him to apologize. As always, I say "don't worry, it's not that big of a deal" and then a couple of weeks later, he does the same thing. He loves the attention and the existence of this thread will make the pimples on his face glow bright red with glee.

When I was growing up (said with a Grandpa like tone), my favorite bands were basically "unreachable". I bought the records, listened to the music, went to the concerts, that's it. I was a fan or I wasn't. I never took the time to hand write hate mail to the Loverboy fan club. The thought of actually making the effort to do something like that seems ridiculous.

The internet has changed the dynamic between musicians and those who enjoy their music. Obviously, it would be hypocritical of me to bitch about the internet, as I use it as a way to promote my music. But, it is a double edge sword. In the old days, guys like ? were just booted from backstage (if they got that far) by security for annoying the band, but now, they are able to annoy the band and other fans from the comfort of their own home.

Maybe in his last act of defiance, ? and other disgruntled Rich Ward fans can organize a disc breaking rally to send a clear message of outrage about my current musical direction. Maybe even burn a Rich Ward effigy outside the Tower records in Atlanta on the release date of the new Mojo record.

Let me make this clear to all of you who are weary of the attitudes that are the topic of this thread. No one in the history of my musical career has EVER stepped to me in person and disrespected me or my music, much less complained about the direction of any of my bands/projects. That includes ?, as I have spoken to him many times after shows. It's always nothing but smiles and love! I guess it's just easier to be bold when the fear of needing corrective dental surgery has been removed from the equation.

Do I think that every Mojo fan likes Fozzy or Sick Speed or The Duke? Hell no! Even Mojo fans like certain records more than others and I am no different. Number Of The Beast and Piece Of Mind are my favorite Maiden records. I don't care for hardly anything after Seventh Son, but they still remain one of my favorites bands of all time. If Kerry King put out a techno record, Slayer fans would not just blindly follow him and start going to dance clubs to hear his new sh*t. So, be clear that I am not blind to the fact that not all of my different projects will not be received the same.

I guess that what I really want to make clear, is that I can't thank the old school Mojo fans enough for supporting me during those years. Please hear me, THANK YOU! You made those years an amazing experience for me and the guys. Those early records are who we were and who I was at that time. Ten years later, I'm not that same guy and I will never do records exactly like that again. Just like Maiden will never put out a record just like Powerslave again. In a way that sucks for me, because I love that record. Maybe it sucks for you in the same way, because you were a fan of my music 10 years ago and now you want to choke me. But, (and this is a big but) I can live with that, knowing that at one time I wrote some music that "meant" something to some of you. That is an honor that I will always be thankful for. As I move "forward" in my career as a musician, my music may continue to speak to you or it may speak to someone else or maybe to no one at all. But I will just keep making the music that I am proud of and that I BELIEVE IN. I will make records that I want to listen to. In a day and age where almost everyone in the music business is trying to jump on the "next big thing" or on "what's hot", I'll just be over here doin' my thing.

Kiske would be well-served to take this approach. Either way, it's all speculation when it comes to Kiske so that's why I suggest just letting him be. I don't like his solo stuff, I don't think it's very good, but he can still wail! :dio:


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 21, 2006 6:27 pm 
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I still like his voice. I don't like his solo stuff, but I'm all for him having his own choice in careers. I just don't like how he treats people. He shows almost no gratitude to anyone for anything. I think if he treated people better, he'd get less flack even though his solo albums would probably still bomb. My other big complaint is his contradictory behavior. If he hates metal now, good for him, then hate it and be done with it. Don't do guest parts and get mad if someone asks you about it or find a way to talk around it. I've always been big about sticking to your guns..

And as I say that :lol: ...like I said, I'll probably end up succumbing to his cheesy attempt at cash, since I'd love to hear him sing old Helloween songs again :dio:


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