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Thoughts on vocals and lyrics
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Author:  Morlock [ Thu Oct 26, 2006 3:45 am ]
Post subject:  Thoughts on vocals and lyrics
So I was having an argument with a friend of mine yesterday and I figured I'd get the forum's thoughts on it too. We were discussing the role of the vocalist in music. Personally, I'm not a big fan of vocals in a song, because I feel that having lyrics can potentially ruin a song, because instead of being able to interpret the music to mean what I feel it means to me, it is instead just about whatever the singer wants it to be about. When people ask me how I can stand death grunts/screams/harsh vocals whatever, because "they can't understand the lyrics" I always say that I like it better that way, because you can feel the vocalists emotion without having to be influenced by what they're saying. I listen to music for the music, not for the words. If you're looking for words, go read a book.

Anyway my buddy fiercely disagreed with me. Thoughts?
Author:  Ogami [ Thu Oct 26, 2006 11:19 am ]
Post subject: 
I think vocals and lyrics are a very important part of music. I also think the best lyrics leave room for thought and interpretation anyway, and allow for relating to me personally. If the lyrics are getting in the way of the music or spoiling it in any way then they're not good lyrics.

However I do prefer death vocals or screams for brutal kinds of music (most of the time), mainly because the lyrics are so awful I don't wanna hear them. That's the major low point for a lot of metal: the lyrics, and I think it's lazy. There are exceptions (such as Nevermore) that manage to keep the music and lyrics as one coherent thought rather than a few riffs with some words stuck on as an afterthought, but sadly it's a rare thing. Having great lyrics can really add another level of appreciation to the song I think, and increase its depth.
Author:  Metalhead_Bastard [ Thu Oct 26, 2006 12:28 pm ]
Post subject: 
Heh. It's fucking solid to write lyrics, so anyone's my band has are just stupid. Thrash is the answer, spreading like cancer-soon it'll get to you to; So fall to your knees and embrace the disease you know that you're time's through...Thrash and burn.

lawl

Who needs real lyrics anyway? They can be good depending what style of music you play but for most of the stuff I listen to they just need to sound cool.
Author:  derncare [ Thu Oct 26, 2006 1:35 pm ]
Post subject: 
It depends on the band. A band like Blind Guardian works hard developing the best lyrics possible for their topics (without overwriting to the point of elimintaing interpritation) and orchestrating vocal melodies/harmonies. With death metal though, it's not like the grunts are all that distinguishable, so even if the lyrics were good, would it matter? Then there are the wank-fest progressive bands who sometimes write decent lyrics and have good singers, but who remembers it all after hearing a 20 minute set of solos? Each band has its purpose and its gifts, and while metal has never been known for its lyrics, there are a few bands that break that mold, so you have to take each band individually.
Author:  Radagast [ Thu Oct 26, 2006 2:47 pm ]
Post subject: 
Bad lyrics can drag good music down, but good lyrics can never rescue bad music.

It goes:
Music
Vocals (how they sound)
Lyrics (what he's saying)

Example: Vio-Lence - the lyrics are stupid and the vocals are terrible, but they fit very well with the music and overall vibe of the band.

Example: Cradle of Filth have some uber-cool lyrics (when not punning furiously), but that doesn't save their shittier songs or stop Dani's vocals being unbelievably annoying.
Author:  Eternal Idol [ Thu Oct 26, 2006 3:30 pm ]
Post subject: 
lol, I can understand most Death Metal vocalists just fine.

I love lyrics, especially in Metal. Some of our heroes have some very profound and important things to say. When a song has lyrics that truly mean something, it can enhance the enjoyment it ten-fold.
Author:  Radagast [ Thu Oct 26, 2006 3:57 pm ]
Post subject: 
Eternal Idol wrote:
lol, I can understand most Death Metal vocalists just fine.

I love lyrics, especially in Metal. Some of our heroes have some very profound and important things to say. When a song has lyrics that truly mean something, it can enhance the enjoyment it ten-fold.

True, but I tend to see that as a bonus.
Author:  Pasqua [ Thu Oct 26, 2006 4:33 pm ]
Post subject: 
Radagast wrote:
Bad lyrics can drag good music down, but good lyrics can never rescue bad music.

It goes:
Music
Vocals (how they sound)
Lyrics (what he's saying)



That's EXACTLY what I think.

Morlock wrote:
I listen to music for the music, not for the words. If you're looking for words, go read a book.


That's what I ALWAYS say to people when they rabble about metal not having great lyrics. Incredible, the SAME thing! :P

I agree with Rad when he says good lyrics are a "bonus" to a song.

I was arguing with a friend about this a while ago. He thinks lyrics should be the FIRST thing you should notice in a song, because they're telling a story, etc. He said "that's why I love Maiden, because they have great lyrics". I then said "what about Fear Of The Dark and Deja Vu? These two have really dumb lyrics and they're fckin great songs, wouldnt you think? ". Got him right over there.
Author:  noodles [ Thu Oct 26, 2006 5:17 pm ]
Post subject: 
I don't like vocals because instrumental bands have to try much harder to keep peoples' attention (and usually they do). As for lyrics I generally only notice them if they're really embarassing... The only lyricist whose really impressed me with his poetry is Jacob Bannon (Converge).
Author:  Cú Chulainn [ Thu Oct 26, 2006 5:20 pm ]
Post subject: 
I think lyrics are important for a band if the band has certain messages they wish to communicate, or has certain ideals. But good lyrics are always enjoyed anyway, although I don't really mind if the lyrics are bad as long as the rest of it is killer. And anyway, how do you define 'good' lyrics?
Author:  noodles [ Fri Oct 27, 2006 5:09 am ]
Post subject: 
FrigidSymphony wrote:
I think lyrics are important for a band if the band has certain messages they wish to communicate, or has certain ideals. But good lyrics are always enjoyed anyway, although I don't really mind if the lyrics are bad as long as the rest of it is killer. And anyway, how do you define 'good' lyrics?

Unique, fitting for the song, emotional, not cliche, witty, multi-layered... it varies just as much as what makes music good :P. Although in metal just having english as a first language puts you pretty far above the crowd.
Author:  Radagast [ Fri Oct 27, 2006 3:03 pm ]
Post subject: 
Let me get this straight, noobles...you don't like vocals? You ever consider you might be listening to the wrong type of music? Shit dude, no wonder like one album in 50 is worthy of your attention.
Author:  rio [ Fri Oct 27, 2006 5:16 pm ]
Post subject: 
Noodles reminds me of Paul McCartney in his avatar.
Author:  Eternal Idol [ Fri Oct 27, 2006 5:18 pm ]
Post subject: 
rio wrote:
Noodles reminds me of Paul McCartney in his avatar.


He just needs to be "allegedly" beating his soon to be ex-wife in the picture. Preferably with her own prosthetic leg.
Author:  Trooper Of Steel [ Fri Oct 27, 2006 5:25 pm ]
Post subject: 
Both the music and lyrics are important, but i'd rather hear and good song, to my ears, and not care what the lyrics are about. I'll read them but not take anything from it. I prefer to hear the music.

With Cradle Of Filth, especially on Nymphetamine, the lyrics contains words that i dont even know what they mean. Does it make sense...not always. Sometimes their lyrics feel cryptic to me. I try not to make sense of it, i just wanna enjoy the music.
Author:  Carnifex Umbris [ Fri Oct 27, 2006 5:58 pm ]
Post subject: 
Lyrics are fairly important to me; if a song has bad lyrics, I'll let them fade into the background, and the song subsequently never makes as big an impact on me as a song with good lyrics, or lyrics that I connect with. I'm not as much of a musician, though (I can only play the violin, and I haven't done that in a couple years), and I'm very much a writer, so words are important to me in general.

Here's a corollary question. Does it bother you when non-native vocalists mispronounce words (whatever the language)? For example, I love "The Enigmatic Spirit" by Vintersorg, but I just cringe whenever I hear him pronounce thesis as "theh-sis".
Author:  grandbazaar [ Fri Oct 27, 2006 6:17 pm ]
Post subject: 
Radagast wrote:
Bad lyrics can drag good music down, but good lyrics can never rescue bad music.

It goes:
Music
Vocals (how they sound)
Lyrics (what he's saying)



I disagree, Vocals to me are as much of an instrument as the guitra drums and bass are, horrible vocals is as bad as an out of tune guitar, or drums that sound like a tin can(exemple: lars..).

other than that I agree that lyrics come in second place generally.
I say generally because it happens occaisonally that I hear lyrics that are so incredible that i'm willing to let things go to some degree on the musical side.
Author:  Reverend Clayton [ Fri Oct 27, 2006 6:36 pm ]
Post subject: 
I write lyrics for my band and as some of you have mentioned...I (as I'm sure many other lyric writers do) take very special care in what I put into them. I will not put something into songs if I feel it is not worthy of being said. However, that doesn't mean that everyone of my lyrics are profound and life changing. They mean something very important to me and the hope is that other people can relate in some way to them as well.

I like all kinds of metal and tend to listen to whatever I think sounds good. However, the bands that stick around in my playlist USUALLY have decent lyrics to back it up.
Author:  The Silent Man [ Fri Oct 27, 2006 7:21 pm ]
Post subject: 
grandbazaar wrote:
Radagast wrote:
Bad lyrics can drag good music down, but good lyrics can never rescue bad music.

It goes:
Music
Vocals (how they sound)
Lyrics (what he's saying)



I disagree, Vocals to me are as much of an instrument as the guitra drums and bass are, horrible vocals is as bad as an out of tune guitar, or drums that sound like a tin can(exemple: lars..).

other than that I agree that lyrics come in second place generally.
I say generally because it happens occaisonally that I hear lyrics that are so incredible that i'm willing to let things go to some degree on the musical side.


I basically agree with everything here.

I love vocals. The way music is talked about usually is that vocals are a seperate entity from the rest of the band, but I would like to think that its all one, a good voice is just like a good sounding guitar, etc.. Its all essential to me. I do like Instrumental tracks (not albums.. booooooring). The only Instrumental Albums I can stand are Movie/Video Game OSTs.. My favorite composer being Noriyuki Iwadare of Lunar/Grandia fame.
Author:  Cú Chulainn [ Fri Oct 27, 2006 8:04 pm ]
Post subject: 
Carnifex Umbris wrote:
Lyrics are fairly important to me; if a song has bad lyrics, I'll let them fade into the background, and the song subsequently never makes as big an impact on me as a song with good lyrics, or lyrics that I connect with. I'm not as much of a musician, though (I can only play the violin, and I haven't done that in a couple years), and I'm very much a writer, so words are important to me in general.

Here's a corollary question. Does it bother you when non-native vocalists mispronounce words (whatever the language)? For example, I love "The Enigmatic Spirit" by Vintersorg, but I just cringe whenever I hear him pronounce thesis as "theh-sis".


Tony Kakko makes me lawl, but it works, cuz the lyrics are damn good and he's a damn good singer.
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