Metal Reviews :: View topic - Musings on Melodic Death Metal and Metalcore

I think if you look at the genres origins you can see where the name comes from. There's a pretty logical progression from Dismember --> early At the Gates --> Later At the Gates/Dark Tranquillity/in Flames --> those bands now/Soilwork ---> Scary Symmetry. Same with metalcore you've got the Christian stuff that was melodeath influenced like Zao who started things off in that direction which then progressed to where it is now. Genres change a lot in 15-20 years.

As for metal influenced hardcore I think the influence was there from the start, f.ex Black Flag had a pretty big doom metal thing going on.

Even At The Gates seems more hardcore at times than most Metalcore which follows on from In Flames Clayman (their first truely Metalcore album).

dead1 wrote:

Even At The Gates seems more hardcore at times than most Metalcore which follows on from In Flames Clayman (their first truely Metalcore album).

FAIL

Clayman is not metalcore. It's more of a mainstream straightfoward type of melodeath. There is nothing core about this.

In Flames = Metallica
Clayman = Black Album
Only For The Weak = Enter Sandman or Sad But True

The idea is that you have a band that had four or five extreme metal albums in the early years. Later they released a less extreme album that still maintained edgy riffing but was more catchy, less textured, and less progressive than the previous. It is hailed a classic by later generations and copied by clones. Unlike Metallica, In Flames actually maintained a death metal vibe instead of going completley "mainstream". I think of A Sense of Purpose and Reroute to Remain to be their most assessable albums. Soundtrack to Your Escape would be next then Come Clarity. Come Clarity is their heaviest, least assessable post-99 album.

I always like to think of In Flames as a mix of Iron Maiden and Metallica. In Flames did cover them both.
I see Melodeth as a whole as a mix of thrash and power/NWOBHM melodies mixed with death vocals.

I always like to think of In Flames as a mix of Iron Maiden and Metallica. In Flames did cover them both.

I see Melodeth as a whole as a mix of thrash and power/NWOBHM melodies mixed with death vocals.

I love TJR but if I hear it one more time I might go crazy.

Does anyone else simply classify death metal and melodic death metal as thrash and call it a day?

That is the distinction here for me. If it is thrash inspired, it's metal, if it's hardcore inspired, it's metalcore. Simple enough.

Author:	dead1 [ Tue Sep 21, 2010 12:50 am ]
Post subject:	Musings on Melodic Death Metal and Metalcore
I heard Soilwork's Panic Broadcast. It was quite good compared to their last album I heard (the dreadful Figure Number Five). But what really struck me was that it was Metalcore yet people still refer to it as Melodic Death Metal. And then I thought about it a bit it would seem that if it comes from Europe it's Melodic Death Metal but if it comes from the USA it's Metalcore. A lot of stuff we term Metalcore follows the Swedish Death Metal formula to a tee - melodic riffs, mid-paced growly/shouty vocals. The only change is a more macho/Pantera sound and some Metalcore bands use breakdowns (again probably from the school of Pantera and Machine Head). Indeed stuff like The Haunted actually sounds more hardcore orientated than As I Lay Dying. Even At The Gates seems more hardcore at times than most Metalcore which follows on from In Flames Clayman (their first truely Metalcore album). The other thought is how little Death Metal there is in most Melodic Death Metal. Other than growl vocals, most Melodic Death Metal bands are chunky power metal or more melodic groove metal. I'd sooner lump In Flames circa Colony and Dark Tranquillity with Nevermore, late Testament and early Iced Earth then I would with Cannibal Corpse, Vital Remains, Bolt Thrower or Morbid Angel. Even if you look at Melodic Death Metal from a purely Swedish perspective, the Gothenberg bands do not have much in common with Swedish Death Metal bands ala Entombed, Dismember and Unleashed. So what would a more accurate term for both Metalcore and Melodic Death Metal bands. I think the term Extreme Heavy Metal might be more accurate. By the way these are musings. I am not trying to badmouth any band (heck I like most of the one's I've mentioned).

Author:	Orion [ Tue Sep 21, 2010 2:30 am ]
Post subject:
Genres. Meh.

Author:	stevelovesmoonspell [ Tue Sep 21, 2010 2:32 am ]
Post subject:
There were bands prior to the late 90's early 2000's, that were playing metal influenced hardcore way before bands like Killswitch and AILD. Bands like Sheer Terror, Merauder,Ringworm, Biohazard, Integrity, Converge, and Cro Mags all had their own take on what exactly defined metalcore, it was only when melodic death emerged alongside metalcore that the younger generations found it appealing, (found melodic death more appealing than thrash). It all depends on your own perspective of what metalcore is, and how you define it though I see both styles being equally valid. As for melodic death metal, I just see it as it's own little unique offshoot of pseudo death metal influence and some heavy metal vibes. Different bands took it to different levels from At the Gates more thrash/hardcore roots, to bands like In flames which influenced a host of metalcore acts.

Author:	noodles [ Tue Sep 21, 2010 2:44 am ]
Post subject:
Orion wrote: Genres. Meh. yeah I think if you look at the genres origins you can see where the name comes from. There's a pretty logical progression from Dismember --> early At the Gates --> Later At the Gates/Dark Tranquillity/in Flames --> those bands now/Soilwork ---> Scary Symmetry. Same with metalcore you've got the Christian stuff that was melodeath influenced like Zao who started things off in that direction which then progressed to where it is now. Genres change a lot in 15-20 years. As for metal influenced hardcore I think the influence was there from the start, f.ex Black Flag had a pretty big doom metal thing going on.

Author:	dead1 [ Tue Sep 21, 2010 3:20 am ]
Post subject:
noodles wrote: I think if you look at the genres origins you can see where the name comes from. There's a pretty logical progression from Dismember --> early At the Gates --> Later At the Gates/Dark Tranquillity/in Flames --> those bands now/Soilwork ---> Scary Symmetry. Same with metalcore you've got the Christian stuff that was melodeath influenced like Zao who started things off in that direction which then progressed to where it is now. Genres change a lot in 15-20 years. In many ways it's similar to how many people still refer to Megadeth, Metallica or Anthrax as Thrash Metal bands when most of them haven't played that style of music for at least 20 years. I do think both Metalcore and Melodic Death Metal are badly labelled and I also think they're too similar overall. noodles wrote: As for metal influenced hardcore I think the influence was there from the start, f.ex Black Flag had a pretty big doom metal thing going on. And there's all the cross over stuff - DRI, Nuclear Assault, Suicidal Tendencies as well as hardcore and punk influences on everything from Iron Maiden to Motorhead to Venom etc. When I was talking about Metalcore it was in reference to the modern and current interpretation of it.

Metal Reviews https://www.metalreviews.com/phpBB/

Musings on Melodic Death Metal and Metalcore https://www.metalreviews.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=18089	Page 1 of 2

Author:	doublewhat [ Tue Sep 21, 2010 7:22 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Musings on Melodic Death Metal and Metalcore
dead1 wrote: Even At The Gates seems more hardcore at times than most Metalcore which follows on from In Flames Clayman (their first truely Metalcore album). FAIL Clayman is not metalcore. It's more of a mainstream straightfoward type of melodeath. There is nothing core about this.

Author:	Legacy Of The Night [ Tue Sep 21, 2010 4:06 pm ]
Post subject:
I think that Slaughter Of The Soul only seems 'core in retrospect, now that we had a whole wave of Metalcore bands that did nothing but play ATG imitation riffs, add breakdowns and call it a song.

Author:	dead1 [ Tue Sep 21, 2010 11:41 pm ]
Post subject:
Again it just goes to show how closely related the two genres are. I first heard Clayman when it came out and the more shouty orientated vocals seemed more Nu-Metal at the time. In fact the whole album seemed more Nu-metal - it had a really bouncy American vibe. In Flames have never hidden their love of Korn and I suspect that Clayman was the first album to start to show these influences. They also started touring with bands such as Slipknot. In hindsight it was a proto-Metalcore album though at the time I just went "crap, another band I like is selling out."

Author:	doublewhat [ Wed Sep 22, 2010 4:17 pm ]
Post subject:
In Flames = Metallica Clayman = Black Album Only For The Weak = Enter Sandman or Sad But True The idea is that you have a band that had four or five extreme metal albums in the early years. Later they released a less extreme album that still maintained edgy riffing but was more catchy, less textured, and less progressive than the previous. It is hailed a classic by later generations and copied by clones. Unlike Metallica, In Flames actually maintained a death metal vibe instead of going completley "mainstream". I think of A Sense of Purpose and Reroute to Remain to be their most assessable albums. Soundtrack to Your Escape would be next then Come Clarity. Come Clarity is their heaviest, least assessable post-99 album. I always like to think of In Flames as a mix of Iron Maiden and Metallica. In Flames did cover them both. I see Melodeth as a whole as a mix of thrash and power/NWOBHM melodies mixed with death vocals.

Author:	stevelovesmoonspell [ Wed Sep 22, 2010 6:39 pm ]
Post subject:
doublewhat wrote: In Flames = Metallica Clayman = Black Album Only For The Weak = Enter Sandman or Sad But True The idea is that you have a band that had four or five extreme metal albums in the early years. Later they released a less extreme album that still maintained edgy riffing but was more catchy, less textured, and less progressive than the previous. It is hailed a classic by later generations and copied by clones. Unlike Metallica, In Flames actually maintained a death metal vibe instead of going completley "mainstream". I think of A Sense of Purpose and Reroute to Remain to be their most assessable albums. Soundtrack to Your Escape would be next then Come Clarity. Come Clarity is their heaviest, least assessable post-99 album. I always like to think of In Flames as a mix of Iron Maiden and Metallica. In Flames did cover them both. I see Melodeth as a whole as a mix of thrash and power/NWOBHM melodies mixed with death vocals. I think you make some fair comparisons between the two, but I don't hear any influence of Metallica in In flames sound. If anything I would say Iron Maiden are the predominant influence, as those melodies from their earlier album particularly the Jester Race are abundant.

Author:	The Evil Dead [ Wed Sep 22, 2010 11:25 pm ]
Post subject:
The Panic Broadcast sucks. doublewhat wrote: I always like to think of In Flames as a mix of Iron Maiden and Metallica. In Flames did cover them both. They've also covered Depeche Mode and Genesis.

Author:	dead1 [ Thu Sep 23, 2010 12:21 am ]
Post subject:
doublewhat wrote: I see Melodeth as a whole as a mix of thrash and power/NWOBHM melodies mixed with death vocals. I actually think there's a heavy groove/post Thrash element and Hardcore thrown in as well. And bands such as Soilwork and In Flames incorporate Nu-metal elements. For example, At The Gates definitely incorporated Hardcore and Groove Metal stylings on Slaughter of the Soul. The Haunted took these even further and are a band that definitely fits Metalcore. Later day Edge of Sanity was similar - e.g. listen to Cryptic or Infernal. Another one that comes to mind is Ebony Tears - on their Tortura Insomniae album there are bits that would be more fitting on a Pantera album than a Melodeath one. Not many of the Melodic Death Metal bands have anything similar to Death Metal. If you listen to the rough vocals for In Flames post Colony and Soilwork from Natural Born Chaos on , they're more similar to Nu-Metal or Hardcore shouting than Death Metal growling. Dark Tranquillity have since Haven only had the growling to link into Death Metal - the rest of their sound is very far removed from Death Metal. Same applies to Arch Enemy.

Author:	North From Here [ Thu Sep 23, 2010 6:23 am ]
Post subject:
Right so the point is, I never listened to any of these bands once the hardcore/nu-metal styling crept in. The Jester Race is still sweet, delicious Maiden metal with growled vocals.

Author:	The Evil Dead [ Fri Sep 24, 2010 7:14 pm ]
Post subject:
I love TJR but if I hear it one more time I might go crazy.

Page 1 of 2	All times are UTC + 1 hour
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group http://www.phpbb.com/

Author:	North From Here [ Fri Sep 24, 2010 9:13 pm ]
Post subject:
The Evil Dead wrote: I love TJR but if I hear it one more time I might go crazy. Give it a rest for about 6 months and then pick it up again. That usually works for me.

Author:	doublewhat [ Sun Sep 26, 2010 4:20 pm ]
Post subject:
The first two releases, Lunar Strain and Subterranean, have thrash and older death metal elements. The original version of Dead Eternity and both versions of Lunar Strain are as thrashy as you can get. Behind Space has blast beats. The best mix of extreme and melody are in the first two albums.

Author:	Adveser [ Sun Sep 26, 2010 5:52 pm ]
Post subject:
Does anyone else simply classify death metal and melodic death metal as thrash and call it a day? That is the distinction here for me. If it is thrash inspired, it's metal, if it's hardcore inspired, it's metalcore. Simple enough.

Author:	stevelovesmoonspell [ Sun Sep 26, 2010 6:22 pm ]
Post subject:
Adveser wrote: Does anyone else simply classify death metal and melodic death metal as thrash and call it a day? That is the distinction here for me. If it is thrash inspired, it's metal, if it's hardcore inspired, it's metalcore. Simple enough. It depends on what school of dm you're talking about, old school death metal has a HUGE thrash influence, and brutal death metal as well as tech death are more or less their own thing now.

Author:	noodles [ Sun Sep 26, 2010 7:29 pm ]
Post subject:
A lot of metalcore doesn't sound that hardcore inspired. It's hard to hear Black Flag or Minor Threat in Between the Buried and Me's music. Also lots of death metal is way further removed from thrash than most metalcore.