Metal Reviews

And true.


Cancerous to metal? You can't believe they get away with it? What are you talking about? What are they getting away with? Why are you spending so much goddamn time analyzing that which you dislike? You've got a girlfriend, do you study cock all day long just so you can describe in detail to your friends what you dislike about cocks and balls? Too veiny? Too hairy? Too wrinkled? Too curved? Or is it just poser cocks that you dislike? DEATH TO DILDOS!!


Fact: Anthrax and Faith No More did not rap to metal. "Bring The Noise" and "I'm The Man" does not make Anthrax rap-metal. And Rage Against The Machine had that "gangsta" feel to it from day one. Of course, they stole that whole concept and sound from Downset who'd been doing it since 1988.


I don't have to agree, and I don't care that I disagree. It's annoying to listen to someone rant and rave about music they know little about—yes, you know little about it! Your opinions are paper thin. You can have that opinion, of course, but until you get your facts straight I'll continue to respond. As for these bands, they were not my starting point in metal, not even close. In fact, I don't even like all of these bands you mentioned; I just find it hard to understand why someone would waste so much time talking trash. It makes little sense to begin with, but it makes no sense when it's prefaced with "I love Metal." Love? Where?


You could do metal a bigger favor and quit whining. These bands have nothing to do with "your" metal.

Don't dis Warrant or Winger in Kens presence or expect this to go on for another 50 pages......

Pffft! I like Winger, wasn't a huge Warrant fan after their second album. But you know "Cherry Pie" kicks ass! And the new Warrant is damn good, too.

So Mike Patton was talking in rhyme on 'Epic'? Chuck Moseley was speaking rather than rapping to Anne Song?. Fact: Public Enemy wrote 'Bring The Noise', but then they song was co-produced with Anthrax to create the most famous 'Rap-Metal' tune this side of 'Walk this Way'. Agreed Anthrax didn't Rap on that record, but you would class it as an Anthrax tune?

RATM were really Snoop Dogg Bling with all those Political homey rants they had, weren't they? Do you mean Dog Eat Dog? Crikey, I've not torn into you at all, but it seems your knowledge is a bit crap too, so you deserve a retort of WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?

The rest of this post has been edited because I admit that it's hard to sound sarcastic via just text. Therefore, I have respectfully removed anything that may have been taken the wrong way as I'm not usually a major asshole.

Mike Patton was not rapping, nor was Chuck Moseley, nor was Robb Flynn on The Burning Red. By your way of thinking you'd have to say DMX does hardcore vocals over rap beats! And I know who wrote "Bring The Noise," but thanks for the lesson. I never said Anthrax wrote that song.


No, I don't mean Dog Eat Dog—who, for the record, kick ass and feature ex-members of the almighty Mucky Pup—who also kick ass—and current members of Lowbuz who were once called Badkarma and I designed the album cover for their debut, but they had to change their name and it was never used. How's that for knowledge? But more to the point, I was talking about Downset. They started in 1988 as Social Justice and had more of a punk sound that had a little rap here and there. They evolved and became Downset around 1990, before RATM even formed. They sound exactly like RATM (listen to "Anger" here: http://www.myspace.com/downset). Downset were covering an Inside Out song live while Zach was still singing in that band! Downset: that's who I was referring to! So, as you can see, I do, in fact, know what the hell I am talking about.

And I am not belittling you. My apologies if you're taking it that way.


WTF? You didn't quote the best part of my joke, the punchline: DEATH TO DILDOS! Quite a zinger, if you ask me. Now I understand why you sent me that PM. We can have a lighthearted discussion, dude, but mind your unfunny, too-serious insults in the future.


Again, you said in your PM that this was nothing more than "idle banter." Unfortunately I didn't read this thread before I replied to you that it was cool. If you take it to this level again, in this thread or any other, like you already did, I will ban you.

I suppose it depends on what you class as rap. I'd say that the verse to Epic is rapping, but I say tomato, you say tomatoe



Fair enough, certainly me in my place there! The 'Dog Eat Dog' question was used to challenge your statement. Dog Eat Dog's look and appeal, marketed around the time of their release of 'All Boro Kings' here in the UK, was like a bunch of Ghetto, Gangsta rappers who play Metal, hence the 'more gangsta than RATM' reference.

But I acknowledge your experience and retract my insinuations that you know nothing. I wasn't aware of the Downset - 'Anger', Inside Out cover, so thanks for the link.



WTF? K, Admittedly that particular post was a low blow, so hence the apologetic edit to it and the other comment in your thread. I'm not here for war against anyone and I admit that my one post crossed the line between banter and insult. Although I thought that some of your posts directed at me were insulting, I judged them to be tongue in cheek, hence no retort until I felt them becoming a bit too personal. I guess it's about how can you distinguish 'banter' or 'sarcasm' in plain text?

As I created this thread to get stuff off my chest about bands that I think are more harm to modern Metal than good, then I don't think I've done an injustice to the world! Plus, in addition, like it or not, it has obviously encouraged discussion and contributions to that view from others who would like to either voice their pet hates about bands or, like you, feverently disagree with my opinion.

Back to the music then...

Wicked Wisdom - I was going to leave my slagging off session at Coal Chamber as the worst metal band in history, but I feel that there is one more band that requires a mention. I can not say Wicked Wisdom are 'cancerous' to metal as such because I haven't fully heard their album. The few tunes I have heard, I wasn't impressed, a kind of Female sounding Slipknot attacking Staind and Evanecense if that makes sense. I saw them live at Download earlier this year and wasn't impressed, the focal point was the fact that Will Smith was standing stage right of Jada throughout the performance, not that they were any good. Follow that up with an expensive looking video of Something Inside of Me and the word 'Kittie' comes to mind. Respect to Will's Missus for trying to make a go of things, but how much of that Hollywood cash is being used to create a Metal star rather than substence. Feel free to disagree with this one as I can't paint a full picture, yet!

Dude, you can continue this thread all you want. But when I read someone saying that Fred Durst brought about the "dark times of metal," or whatever you said, I'm going to call it a stupid statement. It's still a discussion at that point. I never called you stupid, just some of your statements. That's not an insult.

And I agree with you on Wicked Wisdom, though they don't sound like Slipknot or Kittie (who're very good, if you ask me). This is just another metal version of Dogstar (Keanu Reeves's band), a band that got a deal because of a famous face. They're terrible.

[whiskey fueled hate]

Fred Durst didn't start the dark age of metal. He was never metal to begin with!

In every genre, there are, always have been, and always will be posers and opportunists who are in it just for the fame, the money and the pussy. From the hair metal of the 80's to nu-metal to the current metalcore boom. Why give a fuck?

[/whiskey fueled hate]

I dont think there is anything wrong with a hate thread. Mentalmark has something on his mind. If he cant vent it on a fucking metal forum where is he supposed to vent it. I find it kind of funny. As for the dark ages of metal, I think it is all relative. It depends on what times you lived through. I am 26 years old and I was in high school when Limp Bizkit hit big. Every single person I knew in school either listened to Puff Daddy and other rap garbage or the "metal" kids listened to Limp Bizkit and new Metallica. I was listening to Manowar and ICed Earth and Virgin Steele at the time and I wanted to put a knife through all of their heads. Fred Durst, much like Linkin Park, and Korn, all symbolize the AIDS equivalent of metal. I know that this is a personal thing and these bands were all out during the time (high school - college) that my musical tastes were taking shape. I was seeing metal, for the first time as a light in the musical world, and these other bands were casting a shadow on my precious metal. For you older guys, you got to hate White Lion and Def Leppard (sorry Ken), but my generation gets to hate Limp Bizkit, nest as the next generation younger has Avenged Sevenfold and Trivium. I am not trying to pass judgement on specific bands in this post, I am just pointing out that every generation has their share of non-metal suckbands that most people who are into the, and I hate to say the word, "truer", side of metal will hate.

You do realize that your generation is the ONLY generation to react like this toward music, right? You see, us older people could give a fuck about the bands we disliked. We simply disliked them and that was the end of it. You younger kids spend all your time talking about what you hate, which almost comes off like there isn't anything you LIKE!

I mean, Korn, Linkin Park and Limp Bizkit are the AIDS of metal?!?! Does this actually make sense to you? They play a completely different style of metal! They're not pretending like they're a power metal band, but the reaction to them from people like you is as if they did say they were power metal! Your "precious metal," you say! That makes NO SENSE! Why are these bands "casting shadows" on your "precious metal"? If they are, that's YOUR fault! You're spending too much time giving a shit about those bands!

Do you see me running around the death metal forum droppin' shit bombs all over the place? Of course not! Why? Because I don't give a shit about things I dislike! Reacting this way is really stupid if you think about it.

Maybe thats because my generation is the only generation to have to sit through pure crap get shoved up their asses by MTV and the radio. I grew up not having a single radio station to listen to. Did you have a radio station Ken? I bet you did. I know MTV had a big infuence on the 80s scene but at least the shit they were pushing was in the same family as metal. At least some people were somewhat knowledgeable about the music they were listening to.

And, to clarify things, it is not Limp Bizkit and the above mentioned bands that I hate as people so much as I hate what the public's perception of them are. I hate the fact that to most Americans those bands are what metal is.

Think of something you love Ken. You have metnioned that you love boxing. Now imagine someone saying that Hulk Hogan can outbox Rocky marciano. Now obviously this isnt true, but everyone around wears Hulk Hogan shirts and claims that he is the best boxer around. Everyone in America thinks this way except for a few. Are you going to tell me that you arent going to hate Hulk Hogan after a little while. I mean, he isnt even a boxer, just like those bands arent even metal bands, but the fact that everyone you grew up with and the media and MTV tells you that Hogan is the best fighter in the history of the world eventually would get to you. Not everybody can like every note of music recorded like you come off to do sometimes.

BTW, i am not a typical hater of my generation. Look back on my posts and you will see plenty of overly positive posts. Some about bands that you have recommended. I bought Degree Absolute on your recommendation and loved them. Dont tell me their isnt anything I like or lump me in with anybody. I am simply saying that their are always bands, and those bands mentioned above are all terrible mockeries of metal, that will get hate simply because they have marketed themselves as something they are not. I dont toss a football around with my friends and claim to be a football player and some people find it offensive when bands throw in a few "metalish" characteristic on top of either a highly marketed image, or rap, or plain and simply lack of talent or inspiration.

I'm of the older generation, and although we didn't grow up with the internet, metalheads were always getting in group discussions about bands they thought were posers or whatever. I moved around alot growing up, and I saw this everywhere I went. The only difference is that they couldn't paste it permenantly in a place like the internet. The fact is that the younger people will mostly grow out of it at some point. We all do to some extent, although we all also have things we feel strongly enough to vent about, even if others don't find it worthwhile.

For your age, you are really out of touch. The 80's Thrashers despised the Glam Rock scene, and talked mad shit about those bands. There is an old Exodus bootleg where you can hear Paul Bailoff throw a guy wearing a RATT T-Shirt out of the show. it's always been this way man. It's just now the internet puts it in your face. But seriously, saying the music fans of past generations were better than the music fans know is just plain ignorant. Instead of downloading they traded recorded tapes, instead of websites they made fanzines. It's all the same, just the technology is better. My brothers and their friends would sit around and talk shit about bands alot, in much the same way people do it on forums now. Nothing has changed man, you've just become embittered by it for some reason.

MTV was different in the 80s, as was radio. Neither are the same now, which I why I don't watch or listen to them. That's why I keep saying that you guys spend too much time going on about this stuff. Just ignore it. It's not like I never talk about bands I dislike, but 99% of the time when I discuss music it's about what I like. That's more enjoyable to me.


Who's fault is that? Surely not the band's fault.


The difference is that Hogan isn't a boxer, but Limp Bizkit is a metal band. The equivalent would be a boxing fan arguing that Hogan isn't an athlete. Surely he is; he's just not a boxer. Limp Bizkit are a metal band no matter which way someone spins it; they're just not the style of metal that you like, thus you hate to consider them metal in any way.


My comments were in response to what you wrote, but please take them as general statements in response to the overall theme of this thread. If you think I was singling you out, I apologize. I wasn't.

Right, and that's different. That is just bullshitting with your friends, we all do that. This stuff people post online is ridiculous, it's hateful, not conversational.

And, Eternal, you may think it's the same, but with the internet it's clearly not. The internet changes the whole dynamic of music discussion. My point in all this is not that people never bashed bands in the past, but that they never did it so much, with so much passion and hatred. We did bash bands, but more often we discussed the bands we love. There are far too many people here that can't write two sentences about a band they like, but they can write a book about why they hate Limp Bizkit!

No, it's not the same.

I'll just lay it out from my perspective. I don't belive in the "dark times". That assumes there was a time when hardly anyone was releasing anything good. This just isn't the case. If you think people like Fred Durst were a poor representation for metal, then it was the fault of the media outlets for choosing to promote this kind of music in the mainstream. So really, if there is a need to label the period, it was a dark time for the mainstream metal (if you dislike those bands mentioned throughout this thread, which I do, but that's not important in this post). To act like it was hurting metal is crazy because the good stuff is always there. Metal has survived every trend for the last 30 years, and good bands have stuck around. If you chose not to listen to rap metal or nu metal and instead bought the stuff you liked, then you were supporting the continued existence of your favorite music, which should be more important to you than what the mainstream media is doing with their bands. we all know what the mainstream does with music, so really, there's always some kind of "dark time" going on for something when you look at it like that.

Thanks for a bit of clarity and also an agreement!!!

Seriously though, going on about your latter point, I saw Dogstar at Glastonbury about ten years ago and they are beyond doubt the worst band I've ever seen. Consider that when I compare them to some other (non Metal) bands I've caught at festivals over the last 16 years like Green Day (OI! OI! OI! can only get you so far), The Strokes (close 2nd to Dogstar performance wise as they just stood there), Puddle of Mudd (The most uncharismatic frontman of all time) and countless other emo/punk/pop outfits that I can't be bothered to slag off.

Dude, how many times in this thread have you said a certain band is the worst you've seen/heard? You can't have more than one.

Im only 18 years old and the only band that I can remember bashing is Job for a Cowboy. Obvisouly these are just peoples opinons, and youll be hard pressed to change them. I for one do not have a problem with Limp bizkit. I wouldnt go out of the way to say that I am a fan of their music, but I can tolerate it.