Should Ep's and demo's be scored?

noodles · **Posted:** Sat Sep 04, 2010 4:55 pm

Rhys wrote:

You could argue that demos and EPs need to be scored MORE than full-lengths. There are bands out there that have written incredible demos and EPs that are higher quality than other bands full-lengths. But there are also demos and EPs that are hilariously shit. A score would simply act as a shorthand hint as to whether, say, a black metal band is worth seeking out or is a generic fucking Darkthrone clone.

Agree.

The_Voice · **Posted:** Sat Sep 04, 2010 5:29 pm

My problem with scores on this site is the 0-100 scale, i do agree that all albums should be scored (even demos and live albums) but the scale is ridiculous, how do one determines if an album is an 85 or an 87?, i mean when someone ask me about an album i dont go like "dude its a fucking 92 buy it!", and then there is alwalys the "i cant believe this album had a better score than this one" argument, in fact any numeric scale is downright silly, a thumbs up, thumbs down system or a bad, mediocre, great scale would be way better.

Thomas · **Posted:** Sat Sep 04, 2010 5:55 pm

I agree with that... People raises eyebrows at 100/100's.. Would they do the same at a 10/10 or even a 5/5? Not at all.

Satan's Anus · **Joined:** Sun Mar 22, 2009 7:37 pm **Posts:** 1046

Goat wrote:

Satan's Anus wrote:

rio wrote:

What nonsense, Ken. If by "in love with your own words", you mean "we spend a lot of time and effort trying to write as good reviews as possible, and secretly harbour hopes that people will, you know, read them", then guilty as charged.

Nothing wrong with that at all, but you guys expect everyone to have the time to read those reviews. That's what my comment refers to. Suggesting people are lazy for liking the scores is fucking arrogant.

Igor, fetch the sackcloth and ashes! Woe is us! Oh, forgive us, mighty Ken, for running a metal website that doesn't cater to people who don't have time to read metal websites! My god, we must immediately slash everything to the bone so that people who have no time can skim it all within their precious few seconds!

Seriously, I'm a democratic sort of guy, more people clearly want scores than don't, but I think the argument against scores deserves to be put more clearly. Honestly. If you look at a number and use that for the basis of an album purchase, without looking at all the words beforehand, then woe betides you when said album turns out to not have been adequately summed up by a score out of a hundred. Presumably that's how such people buy household appliances, computers and cars as well, without stopping to consider whether it fits their needs or no? Wish I had that money to throw away.

If you can't accurately score an album based on your own fucking review, you're a failed reviewer. And a shitty writer. Simple as that.

rio · **Posted:** Sat Sep 04, 2010 6:39 pm

He said adequately, not accurately. A score can be accurate but it can never be adequate.

Goat · **Posted:** Sat Sep 04, 2010 7:29 pm

Satan's Anus wrote:

If you can't accurately score an album based on your own fucking review, you're a failed reviewer. And a shitty writer. Simple as that.

Similar to what The_Voice said, Ken, what's the difference between 86/100 and 87/100? Please explain. Then do the same for the differences between 34/100 and 35/100, 67/100 and 68/100, and 98/100 and 99/100.

ganeshaRules · **Posted:** Sat Sep 04, 2010 7:37 pm

The_Voice wrote:

My problem with scores on this site is the 0-100 scale, i do agree that all albums should be scored (even demos and live albums) but the scale is ridiculous, how do one determines if an album is an 85 or an 87?, i mean when someone ask me about an album i dont go like "dude its a fucking 92 buy it!", and then there is alwalys the "i cant believe this album had a better score than this one" argument, in fact any numeric scale is downright silly, a thumbs up, thumbs down system or a bad, mediocre, great scale would be way better.

I agree. a 0-5 star system or 0-10 is better.

Rhys · **Posted:** Sun Sep 05, 2010 6:56 am

Satan's Anus wrote:

Goat wrote:

Satan's Anus wrote:

rio wrote:

What nonsense, Ken. If by "in love with your own words", you mean "we spend a lot of time and effort trying to write as good reviews as possible, and secretly harbour hopes that people will, you know, read them", then guilty as charged.

Nothing wrong with that at all, but you guys expect everyone to have the time to read those reviews. That's what my comment refers to. Suggesting people are lazy for liking the scores is fucking arrogant.

Igor, fetch the sackcloth and ashes! Woe is us! Oh, forgive us, mighty Ken, for running a metal website that doesn't cater to people who don't have time to read metal websites! My god, we must immediately slash everything to the bone so that people who have no time can skim it all within their precious few seconds!

Seriously, I'm a democratic sort of guy, more people clearly want scores than don't, but I think the argument against scores deserves to be put more clearly. Honestly. If you look at a number and use that for the basis of an album purchase, without looking at all the words beforehand, then woe betides you when said album turns out to not have been adequately summed up by a score out of a hundred. Presumably that's how such people buy household appliances, computers and cars as well, without stopping to consider whether it fits their needs or no? Wish I had that money to throw away.

If you can't accurately score an album based on your own fucking review, you're a failed reviewer. And a shitty writer. Simple as that.

You are being a turd. Let the rest of us debate it with logical arguments please.

North From Here · **Posted:** Sun Sep 05, 2010 8:18 am

Rhys wrote:

Satan's Anus wrote:

Goat wrote:

Satan's Anus wrote:

rio wrote:

What nonsense, Ken. If by "in love with your own words", you mean "we spend a lot of time and effort trying to write as good reviews as possible, and secretly harbour hopes that people will, you know, read them", then guilty as charged.

Nothing wrong with that at all, but you guys expect everyone to have the time to read those reviews. That's what my comment refers to. Suggesting people are lazy for liking the scores is fucking arrogant.

Igor, fetch the sackcloth and ashes! Woe is us! Oh, forgive us, mighty Ken, for running a metal website that doesn't cater to people who don't have time to read metal websites! My god, we must immediately slash everything to the bone so that people who have no time can skim it all within their precious few seconds!

Seriously, I'm a democratic sort of guy, more people clearly want scores than don't, but I think the argument against scores deserves to be put more clearly. Honestly. If you look at a number and use that for the basis of an album purchase, without looking at all the words beforehand, then woe betides you when said album turns out to not have been adequately summed up by a score out of a hundred. Presumably that's how such people buy household appliances, computers and cars as well, without stopping to consider whether it fits their needs or no? Wish I had that money to throw away.

If you can't accurately score an album based on your own fucking review, you're a failed reviewer. And a shitty writer. Simple as that.

You are being a turd. Let the rest of us debate it with logical arguments please.

*facepalm*

Satan's Anus · **Joined:** Sun Mar 22, 2009 7:37 pm **Posts:** 1046

Goat wrote:

Satan's Anus wrote:

If you can't accurately score an album based on your own fucking review, you're a failed reviewer. And a shitty writer. Simple as that.

Similar to what The_Voice said, Ken, what's the difference between 86/100 and 87/100? Please explain. Then do the same for the differences between 34/100 and 35/100, 67/100 and 68/100, and 98/100 and 99/100.

Well, I've always maintained that those scores were stupid. My scores were always the equivalent of one through 10, with half points. I can see an 85, or 8.5, but I've never understood an 87.

Goat · **Posted:** Mon Sep 06, 2010 9:43 pm

Ah, give or take 5 points, eh? So you can't accurately score an album based on your own review, then. Nice to know.

cry of the banshee · **Posted:** Tue Sep 07, 2010 5:43 am

Goddamn, but this is some stupid fucking shit. Are we really quibbling over the odd point here and there? Really?
In the Grand Scheme Of Things, this falls just under who the next American Idol will be on the list of things that matter.

Leave it as it is, though I think EP's should be scored.
If they are not, who gives a fuck?
Read the review. Simple, no?

Cnote11 · **Joined:** Mon Aug 30, 2010 11:37 pm **Posts:** 103

Here is my take. Scores are good because they help dictate people towards which reviews to read. There are a lot of reviews on this site and if someone comes here looking for music in a certain genre they don't want to read entire reviews of everything to find some good music. However, scores are just guidelines. I hope nobody would look at a score and that's it. I hope they would read the reviews, which I think are quite good on this site, to get a feel for the album and it's sound before deciding whether or not they'd be fully interested. If I've never heard of the band of course I want to read something about them and their sound and why the reviewer himself feels they are deserving of such score. I think it's always great to get information on the album and the band. EP's being scored would be nice; there are some bands, maybe not so much in the metal genre, that have built their careers on a lot of amazing EP's that pile up to albums worth of classic material. However, there aren't very many Demo's and EP's compared to full-lengths. So if you're that curious and you like the genre of the EP being reviewed, just pop in and skim the review to see if it's positive and then read the review to see if the sound is worth checking out to you.

Adveser · **Joined:** Tue Nov 13, 2007 1:26 am **Posts:** 2491

It is also worth mentioning some albums are 35 minutes long and some EPs are longer. And what about Mini-CDs like "Hunters and Prey?" It isn't a proper full length album, but come on, is the price point and marketing of the record going to determine whether it deserves a score or not?

IrishKunt · **Joined:** Thu Feb 05, 2009 12:55 am **Posts:** 12

EP's should definitely be scored, Altar of Plagues Tides EP for example is a great listen thats over 30 minutes long and holds up to their magnificent debut album.

Scoring system would ideally be better with a 0-10 or a 5 star system. Eliminating scoring altogether probably wouldn't help much, any random shmuck browsing would want to see a score and it also assists people on what reviews to read, bands to check out etc.

Hai, I'm new.

Goat · **Posted:** Tue Sep 07, 2010 1:01 pm

Hi, new guy.

The problem with changing the scoring system at all is that there are so many reviews done with the old scoring system that changing it would be a massive job. It'd have to wait until the site shifted format, and even then I have no idea how you could transfer them all without doing it one by one. Don't expect a change to no scores or a star system any time soon.

IrishKunt · **Joined:** Thu Feb 05, 2009 12:55 am **Posts:** 12

yeah I can see it would be hard to implement, I'd only see it as an ideal situation. Still though! Scoring for EP's!

xexyzl · **Posted:** Tue Sep 07, 2010 7:21 pm

Goat wrote:

Hi, new guy.

The problem with changing the scoring system at all is that there are so many reviews done with the old scoring system that changing it would be a massive job. It'd have to wait until the site shifted format, and even then I have no idea how you could transfer them all without doing it one by one. Don't expect a change to no scores or a star system any time soon.

Well that's all well and good, but you implemented the CLASSIC system just recently didn't you? If you really wanted to, you could dictate a new rule saying that everything must be scored using a ## / ## whole number only format, though I could see the problem in terms of visually mismatching the old reviews.

noodles · **Posted:** Tue Sep 07, 2010 8:53 pm

I think the scoring system is fine. Mainly I'm amazed at how many reviews get 74 or 88 scores instead of a rounder number.

Cnote11 · **Joined:** Mon Aug 30, 2010 11:37 pm **Posts:** 103

The scoring system is fine, if you want it to be out of 10 then just do the math. 88/100 = 8.8/10, 35/10 = 3.5/10. If you want it to be out of 5 just do the same thing, 75/100 = 7.5/10 = 3.75/5

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Should Ep's and demo's be scored?

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