Some things never change.
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| They really should shoot rioters and looters - London https://www.metalreviews.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=21967 |
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| Author: | dead1 [ Mon Aug 08, 2011 6:29 am ] |
| Post subject: | They really should shoot rioters and looters - London |
I think the pricks that unleashed the wave of rioting and looting should be dealt with Syrian style - i.e. shot fucking dead and crushed under tank treads. People need to learn that this sort of behaviour is unacceptable and that it will see them killed or maimed. My dad said people need either a fear of government or a fear of god(s). Given god/s don't hold much sway these days, it needs to be government. Pricks would be a lot less willing to go out and loot and riot if it resulted in being at the recieving end of 5.56x45mm rounds. |
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| Author: | stevelovesmoonspell [ Mon Aug 08, 2011 6:47 am ] |
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We have the exact inverse here, a love of government, so much so that it shows even when we are discussing "Budget cuts". Idyllically, man should fear nothing, as fear lends itself for malleability for holy state, so obviously I disagree entirely with that premise. Obviously, looting should be punished though |
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| Author: | GeneralDiomedes [ Mon Aug 08, 2011 2:41 pm ] |
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Absolutely fucking not, property can be repaired, items compensated for. This is why we have insurance companies. As for punishment, jail is sufficient, although I believe extracting monetary compensation from the perpetrators would be more fitting and productive. Assuming this is a serious post, you really are beginning to worry me. P.S. It's pretty abhorrent to say anything should be done 'Syrian style' .. I happen to work with some Syrian expats and this world would be far better off without any governments behaving in a Syrian fashion. Really poor choice of analogy. |
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| Author: | Kathaarian [ Mon Aug 08, 2011 3:42 pm ] |
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Fuck the Syrian government. What they are doing is a massacre. You should be ashamed of yourself as a westerner to even approve of their atrocities, but to actually want it to happen somewhere else? Fuck off. Seriously. People do not need to be afraid of their government to behave. Those who act sensibly and with morality cause no problem. But if the people are upset, they have every right and power to show their feelings. If the people want, they can topple governments and no government can stand in their way. |
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| Author: | The Annoying Frenchman [ Mon Aug 08, 2011 4:35 pm ] |
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GeneralDiomedes wrote: although I believe extracting monetary compensation from the perpetrators would be more fitting and productive.
Indeed. They should work for the same amount than the things they have broken. It's only fair and more productive than prison. |
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| Author: | Cú Chulainn [ Mon Aug 08, 2011 9:26 pm ] |
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It is the government that should fear the people, mostly. The Tottenham riots, however, are ridiculous. So a criminal shot at the police who were trying to arrest him and was killed in the resulting shoot out. His own fucking fault. |
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| Author: | cry of the banshee [ Mon Aug 08, 2011 9:47 pm ] |
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Some things never change. |
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| Author: | dead1 [ Mon Aug 08, 2011 11:56 pm ] |
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GeneralDiomedes wrote: Assuming this is a serious post, you really are beginning to worry me.
P.S. It's pretty abhorrent to say anything should be done 'Syrian style' .. I happen to work with some Syrian expats and this world would be far better off without any governments behaving in a Syrian fashion. Really poor choice of analogy. I don't adhere to the concept of human rights for all. I believe people can lose their human rights by committing acts of violence against one another or against their community. In that case it's fine for the government to get in, break heads and get rid of trouble makers. We Croats are a lot less squeamish about breaking a few heads to get a result. It's why we won our last war. |
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| Author: | stevelovesmoonspell [ Tue Aug 09, 2011 12:06 am ] |
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dead1 wrote: GeneralDiomedes wrote: Assuming this is a serious post, you really are beginning to worry me. P.S. It's pretty abhorrent to say anything should be done 'Syrian style' .. I happen to work with some Syrian expats and this world would be far better off without any governments behaving in a Syrian fashion. Really poor choice of analogy. I don't adhere to the concept of human rights for all. I believe people can lose their human rights by committing acts of violence against one another or against their community. In that case it's fine for the government to get in, break heads and get rid of trouble makers. We Croats are a lot less squeamish about breaking a few heads to get a result. It's why we won our last war. Yeah, I mean killing people for stealing any amount is perfectly logical. This view is highly untenable yet not surprising as with most statist logic, first off no one loses their human rights as a result of a minor crime such as theft. Yet rioting in and of itself is a particular cardinal sin for the state, as it shows a discontent people and therefore should be punished to stop other rabble rousers. Then tomorrow what will stop the government for killing people for smaller offenses, lets take a life for assault, aggravated robbery, and or other offenses the state deems it necessary to completely eradicate an individual based of its own volition. As if giving it the powers of "God" weren't enough, there is a spot in 1940's Germany for you Dead,
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| Author: | dead1 [ Tue Aug 09, 2011 1:13 am ] |
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Those people are rioting cause it's a good way of getting a free plasma TV, free grog etc as well as causing some mayhem. I've experienced rioting first hand and most people are in it for the carnage and for the loot. If people are truly opposing the government, then why burn down cafes and people's cars. Why loot electronics stores? Why mug passerbys? And why rape ethnic Chinese women like they did in Indonesian riots several years ago? I'd let these thugs have it at full auto and then display their bodies on the streets to show what happens to people who are violent thugs and who disrespect the law. As for Germany 1940, I was actually thinking the way they used to handle rioters in Napoleonic France (cannister shot from cannons) or the US in the 1930's (National Guard) and how they used to display bodies of rebels in Rome or in gibbets in 17th century Britain. The Nazis were morons. You can learn a lot from the past. 
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| Author: | stevelovesmoonspell [ Tue Aug 09, 2011 1:25 am ] |
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dead1 wrote: Those people are rioting cause it's a good way of getting a free plasma TV, free grog etc as well as causing some mayhem.
I've experienced rioting first hand and most people are in it for the carnage and for the loot. If people are truly opposing the government, then why burn down cafes and people's cars. Why loot electronics stores? Why mug passerbys? And why rape ethnic Chinese women like they did in Indonesian riots several years ago? I'd let these thugs have it at full auto and then display their bodies on the streets to show them what happens to people who are violent thugs and who disrespect the law. As for Germany 1940, I was actually thinking the way they used to handle rioters in Napoleonic France (cannister shot from cannons) or the US in the 1930's (National Guard) and how they used to display bodies of rebels in Rome or in gibbets in 17th century Britain. You can learn a lot from the past. Then you'd be nothing more than a useful goon for big brother, showing the state's righteous power against the individual for committing a "deemed" crime. I don't care what the issue is and even if they are rioting for those reasons, have you not heard of "let the punishment fit the crime"? As much as you come across as loathing the towelheads for their brand of barbaric justice, you exhibit the same primitive tendencies. |
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| Author: | dead1 [ Tue Aug 09, 2011 1:33 am ] |
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I actually admire the "towelheads" for their justice system when it works. It's other elements of their society I deplore (e.g. overall intolerance, lack of social equality, lack of individual freedoms). I believe every one is entitled to be treated fairly and respectfully and to have the same opportunities in life (e.g. education, no job discrimination based on sex, race, religion, appearance, sexuality etc). EXCEPT If someone is a violent thug and who causes harm to other people and property for their own personal satisfaction or gains, then they lose their rights and are not entitled to any protection from government laws. |
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| Author: | cry of the banshee [ Tue Aug 09, 2011 1:41 am ] |
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Are they burning down their own neighborhoods? If so, let them live in the aftermath. That includes businesses leaving for greener pastures. And if they want it rebuilt, they should be made to do so themselves. Too much coddling of these "urban yoofs", I say. |
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| Author: | MetalStorm [ Tue Aug 09, 2011 1:50 am ] |
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dead1 wrote: I actually admire the "towelheads" for their justice system when it works. It's other elements of their society I deplore (e.g. overall intolerance, lack of social equality, lack of individual freedoms).
I believe every one is entitled to be treated fairly and respectfully and to have the same opportunities in life (e.g. education, no job discrimination based on sex, race, religion, appearance, sexuality etc). EXCEPT If someone is a violent thug and who causes harm to other people and property for their own personal satisfaction or gains, then they lose their rights and are not entitled to any protection from government laws. Quit drinking trapt's,stefan's and frigid's koolaid you might drown. |
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| Author: | stevelovesmoonspell [ Tue Aug 09, 2011 2:10 am ] |
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dead1 wrote: I actually admire the "towelheads" for their justice system when it works. It's other elements of their society I deplore (e.g. overall intolerance, lack of social equality, lack of individual freedoms).
I believe every one is entitled to be treated fairly and respectfully and to have the same opportunities in life (e.g. education, no job discrimination based on sex, race, religion, appearance, sexuality etc). EXCEPT If someone is a violent thug and who causes harm to other people and property for their own personal satisfaction or gains, then they lose their rights and are not entitled to any protection from government laws. If it works then you'd see crime in their system stop on a more rapid level. Everyone has the right to be fairly "Treated", yet you've given the state enough power to deal out a punishment far more severe than the crime? I don't understand you're position is untenable, so I'll leave it at that. |
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| Author: | dead1 [ Tue Aug 09, 2011 3:41 am ] |
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I don't buy into that "punishment far more severe than the crime" or bullshit. If someone is convicted of rape or pedophilia, then having them shot is appropriate because they caused harm. In Asian countries they execute drug dealers. That's better than giving them a free ride cause their crime is "less severe." |
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| Author: | stevelovesmoonspell [ Tue Aug 09, 2011 7:24 am ] |
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dead1 wrote: I don't buy into that "punishment far more severe than the crime" or bullshit.
If someone is convicted of rape or pedophilia, then having them shot is appropriate because they caused harm. In Asian countries they execute drug dealers. That's better than giving them a free ride cause their crime is "less severe." False example, we are dealing with crimes as you listed such as rioting and theft. Not anything that deals with the distinct harm of an individual, as rioting affects the state and theft affects the local economy. I could care less what Asian countries do as their justice system is far more fucked up than ours, so if you are going to make an example at least make one relating to the Modern west, and don't go off on a tangent about WW2 or some bullshit like you always do. |
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| Author: | dead1 [ Tue Aug 09, 2011 8:06 am ] |
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The modern Western legal system is a joke. It's designed to keep offenders out of prison without rehabilitation, punishment or any other concept applied to it. Having witnessed how it works in Australia, the purpose of the criminal legal system seems purely to go through a process, just like any other bureaucracy. And it's too infested with bleeding heart types who believe all people are good and those who commit crimes are merely misunderstood. Oh and you put in the WWII reference. |
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| Author: | stevelovesmoonspell [ Tue Aug 09, 2011 8:30 am ] |
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dead1 wrote: The modern Western legal system is a joke. It's designed to keep offenders out of prison without rehabilitation, punishment or any other concept applied to it.
Having witnessed how it works in Australia, the purpose of the criminal legal system seems purely to go through a process, just like any other bureaucracy. And it's too infested with bleeding heart types who believe all people are good and those who commit crimes are merely misunderstood. Oh and you put in the WWII reference. You still have not managed to bridge the disconnect, between your false logic regarding the overuse of state power with capital punishment regarding rioting and theft. I agree for the most part about the weakness of our justice system, as it produces no genuine change in the majority of inmates- but speaking from the broader context of overreaching state powers we don't execute our criminals merely for theater like Old France. There is no proof overall that the death penalty is a significant deterrent for violent crime to begin with, whether or not its justly applied for acts such as murder, rape, and child molestation is something I'm sure we can all agree on. But to say big government should execute a couple of hoodlums for destroying a communities property, when a more pragmatic approach as COTB said would be to make the perpetrators pay, live, and or serve lengthy prison sentences with no contact with people for replaceable damage is still not a tenable position. |
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| Author: | Azrael [ Tue Aug 09, 2011 1:50 pm ] |
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dead1 wrote: I don't adhere to the concept of human rights for all. I believe people can lose their human rights by committing acts of violence against one another or against their community.
In that case it's fine for the government to get in, break heads and get rid of trouble makers. We Croats are a lot less squeamish about breaking a few heads to get a result. It's why we won our last war. lack of humanity must stop somewhere. if people act like animals, it still doesn't, and shouldn't ever, give anyone (not even the state) the power to act inhumanely. |
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