Metal Reviews :: View topic - Are Europeans blatantly racist?

What about language? I heard there are places where they refuse to entertain anyone who spoke in English. This was also something my uncle experienced, but way back in the 80's I think.

seriously, though, they don't. then they even come to Portugal and expect us to understand Spanish, and we do, but for some reason they don't understand Portuguese. go figure.

Racism is human. To prefer one's own tribe to another is a mentality that is tens of thousands of years old. Even the so-called open-minded fags who preach multi-ethnic coexistence feel racist at some point. Let's not pretend to be better than we really are, guys.

Hellraiser, hang a camera around your neck when you're abroad, people will be friendlier towards you when they see you're a tourist rather than a social welfare immigrant.

Karmakosmonaut wrote:

Um?

Could they not just have been busy in the bar and didn't have time to take the drinks all the way over to you?

Back in the 90's there was this huge influx of Indonesian labourers and the whole of Malaysia freaked out. It's not like we hate them, but it's just that they make-up a good share of the crimes committed here, and that's got many Malaysians trying to stay away from them. I know a few Indonesians, they're nice people actually. It's just the old timers are the ones who are still skeptical towards them.

Author:	hellraiser_xes [ Wed Mar 18, 2009 8:28 am ]
Post subject:	Are Europeans blatantly racist?
A friend of mine spent two weeks in Italy a couple of weeks ago. He was there for some training he had to undergo under his company. I forgot what town he was in, but I'm sure it wasn't Rome or Milan. He and his superior, a German, decided to go to a bar during one of the weekends. At the bar, their order was taken down but was never met. The waiter actually came with what they ordered, but he left it a the table next to my friend's. The guy at the next table obviously told him that it wasn't his but instead my friend's, and the waiter replied something in Italian which my friend, couldn't understand because he doesn't know Italian. The German however, knew a bit of Italian and he understood what the waiter said; "yes it's theirs, but we're offering it free for everyone else". My friend asked the waiter again for the order and the waiter brushed him aside. Feeling insulted, the German and my friend left and went to a different bar. At the entrance, it was obvious anyone could enter the bar, but when my friend and his superior reached the entrance, they were told off that only couples (meaning boy-girl) could enter. It wasn't his first time experiencing things like this. He got some stick when he was in other parts of Europe as well and suprisingly he was spat at when he was in the UK. Ever since he came back he told me that he found Europe to be a bitter place and he's trying to avoid going back there for further training. He even told me to think twice bout my trip next year to Europe. "People like us are not welcomed over there so don't bother". People like us referring to our race of course, Malaysian-Indians. He wasn't the first guy who told me about such stories about Europe. My uncle, a former steward with our national airline had a lot of problems mainly in Italy, Spain, Greece, Sweden, Denmark and Switzerland. The one in Zurich was funny but disturbing as well. He was at a coffee shop and he ordered coffee. He waited for nearly 20 minutes for the coffee again, and ok, this time they brought the coffee, but they didn't give it to him. They actually left it on the five-foot path and signaled to him to come and get it. I'm actually saving up and looking forward to my trip to Europe next year, maybe sometime close to Wacken. But when I hear such stories and remember what my uncle told me, that excitement slowly fades. Sometimes I'll just go ah..fuck Europe, let's go somewhere else. And when I hear such stories it explains why so many foreigners regard Malaysians as very friendly people. I used to wonder why they keep saying that, maybe cos I've lived here too long that I don't notice it anymore. But now I get it I guess. But seriously, I thought that Europe has very much moved away from racism and all, but if it's still present, is it that blatant? If yes, what countries should I avoid visiting?

Author:	Cú Chulainn [ Wed Mar 18, 2009 8:58 am ]
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It's not blatant, and I've never experienced anything like what you say, at least not according to race (sometimes families don't get served in posh cafes because they don't want children making noise ). I guess it depends what part of the city you go to, but I can't imagine any of the bars here ever doing anything like that.

Author:	hellraiser_xes [ Wed Mar 18, 2009 9:08 am ]
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What about language? I heard there are places where they refuse to entertain anyone who spoke in English. This was also something my uncle experienced, but way back in the 80's I think.

Author:	Cú Chulainn [ Wed Mar 18, 2009 9:16 am ]
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hellraiser_xes wrote: What about language? I heard there are places where they refuse to entertain anyone who spoke in English. This was also something my uncle experienced, but way back in the 80's I think. Also bullshit. During the Bush years, Americans were welcomed with cynicism almost everywhere, but no one would ever refuse to serve someone speaking English. And now that Bush is gone, we're a lot friendlier.

Author:	hellraiser_xes [ Wed Mar 18, 2009 9:52 am ]
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Well it's good to hear that someone is able squash my doubts/fears.

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Author:	ganeshaRules [ Wed Mar 18, 2009 9:55 am ]
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Well, it depends of people & places, as all. There's a some blatant racist people (people as you descript), more slighty racist (people that look yourself as if you were an alien, or that doesn't sit next to you in trains or buses) and a lot of non racist people. And I can't speak of other places, but in Barcelona center (Ramblas and next) there're more bars that attend you only in english that in spanish or catalonian And if someone (in Catalonia) refuses to speak to you in english, is that that person doesn't know english. But as a whole, I don't think Europe is racist, I'm not racist, and I'm european.

Author:	rio [ Wed Mar 18, 2009 10:11 am ]
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Europe has no shortage of racists but they are not in the majority. It also depends where you go. Some areas of Europe are extremely cosmopolitan, and some are much more homogeneous. I'd imagine if you were in a place such as London, or my own city of Leeds, which both have extremely diverse populations, the vast majority of people wouldn't bat an eyelid at a Malaysian being in a bar.

Author:	Goat [ Wed Mar 18, 2009 10:48 am ]
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I'm going to be controversial and say that in my experience as an Englishman, a lot of people here are unthinkingly racist in a snooty, well, British way. Most are generally too polite to be openly racist, however, plus like rio said Britain's very multicultural now. Of course, there are the wanker exceptions... Could they not just have been busy in the bar and didn't have time to take the drinks all the way over to you?

Author:	Azrael [ Wed Mar 18, 2009 2:10 pm ]
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as in indian in portugal i have to say that i never experienced anything like the stuff you described. sure there are racists.. everywhere. but they aren't the majority or anything like it. also when i went to Nottingham there were tons of african and asian students, no one even looked twice at them, unless they were like really attractive or something. in spain they might not give service to english-speakers because spaniards can't speak english themselves. those fucking assholes refuse to speak any language other than their own, it's fucking ridiculous. now that's racist seriously, though, they don't. then they even come to Portugal and expect us to understand Spanish, and we do, but for some reason they don't understand Portuguese. go figure.

Author:	Karmakosmonaut [ Wed Mar 18, 2009 2:46 pm ]
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Yes, we are.

Author:	ganeshaRules [ Wed Mar 18, 2009 2:52 pm ]
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Azrael wrote: seriously, though, they don't. then they even come to Portugal and expect us to understand Spanish, and we do, but for some reason they don't understand Portuguese. go figure. Hey, I understand portugese (at a basic level) and I'm spanish (well, catalonian, but that's a different thing).

Author:	Thomas [ Wed Mar 18, 2009 3:30 pm ]
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Well, As already mentioned, there are racism everywhere, but I think your friend has been really unlucky. It's not that common. However, there are a certain fear of foreigners in every country, and Norway is definitely one of those places. Though I wouldn't call it reacism, rather scepticalism towards the average pakistani, somalian or whatever because there is always something on the news including them and a crime. I can see that scepticism, but hell, some people are exaggerating and blowing it our of porportions like som of our political parties who state that radical islam is smuggled into Norway. On the other hand though, and I don't say that your friend did, but many many foreigners and coloured people in particular are taking criticism in the racist way. Claiming we are racists and blowing it up in the media because they're not let in on night clubs because they're obviously too drunk or have to show their ID and didn't bring one. I do understand it to a certain extent, but throwing that argument out there in every single case is just not right.

Author:	Thy Serpent [ Wed Mar 18, 2009 7:06 pm ]
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I agree with the other posters that racism exists everywhere. I remember speaking to a Canadian and she said one of her friends had come to India and was dedicating herself to helping the poor. She said many people used to hurl abuses and even spit on her simply cos she was from the west. You will always have these screwed up people everywhere.

Author:	Karmakosmonaut [ Thu Mar 19, 2009 1:48 am ]
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Racism is human. To prefer one's own tribe to another is a mentality that is tens of thousands of years old. Even the so-called open-minded fags who preach multi-ethnic coexistence feel racist at some point. Let's not pretend to be better than we really are, guys. Hellraiser, hang a camera around your neck when you're abroad, people will be friendlier towards you when they see you're a tourist rather than a social welfare immigrant.

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Author:	Goat [ Thu Mar 19, 2009 1:53 am ]
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Karmakosmonaut wrote: Racism is human. To prefer one's own tribe to another is a mentality that is tens of thousands of years old. Even the so-called open-minded fags who preach multi-ethnic coexistence feel racist at some point. Let's not pretend to be better than we really are, guys. Hellraiser, hang a camera around your neck when you're abroad, people will be friendlier towards you when they see you're a tourist rather than a social welfare immigrant. Um?

Author:	traptunderice [ Thu Mar 19, 2009 3:04 am ]
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Goat wrote: Karmakosmonaut wrote: Racism is human. To prefer one's own tribe to another is a mentality that is tens of thousands of years old. Even the so-called open-minded fags who preach multi-ethnic coexistence feel racist at some point. Let's not pretend to be better than we really are, guys. Hellraiser, hang a camera around your neck when you're abroad, people will be friendlier towards you when they see you're a tourist rather than a social welfare immigrant. Um? Um race doesn't exist.

Author:	hellraiser_xes [ Thu Mar 19, 2009 3:34 am ]
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Well I would agree that racism exists everywhere. Even here in Malaysia, there's still a slight hint of it. But like what you guys have described, it's only the minority few. metal_xxx I think you might be right. It's not that they're racist, just may be too scared of a foreign person that's all. It's two totally different things in fact. We even experience that over here. Back in the 90's there was this huge influx of Indonesian labourers and the whole of Malaysia freaked out. It's not like we hate them, but it's just that they make-up a good share of the crimes committed here, and that's got many Malaysians trying to stay away from them. I know a few Indonesians, they're nice people actually. It's just the old timers are the ones who are still skeptical towards them. I just hate it when they go all patriotic about their country, loads fights have occurred here because of that. You're in a different country, so shut up. I can't imagine an Indian guy in England shouting "England shit! India nambarr vhaan (number one in thick indian accent)!!" Oh by the way. Indonesian Death Metal rulez!!! Goat wrote: Could they not just have been busy in the bar and didn't have time to take the drinks all the way over to you? Fine, if they were busy. But how come they still found the time bring the orders all the way to the person sitting at the next table?

Author:	rio [ Thu Mar 19, 2009 11:37 am ]
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Karmakosmonaut wrote: Racism is human. To prefer one's own tribe to another is a mentality that is tens of thousands of years old. Even the so-called open-minded fags who preach multi-ethnic coexistence feel racist at some point. Let's not pretend to be better than we really are, guys. Hellraiser, hang a camera around your neck when you're abroad, people will be friendlier towards you when they see you're a tourist rather than a social welfare immigrant. Yes its also perfectly natural and human to die in the mud from bubonic plague after an average life expectancy of 26 years... If we can move beyond our natural state in that regard then presumably we can resist the urge to chuck sticks at people who look different as well, eh?

Author:	Cú Chulainn [ Thu Mar 19, 2009 11:44 am ]
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The instinct to favour your own "tribe" however is understandable and is a basis for forwarding human civilization. I think that xenophobia is innate in everyone, just as the fear of the unknown is innate in everyone. It's just the extent to which it develops and combines with a person's education and worldliness that matters.

Author:	rio [ Thu Mar 19, 2009 11:53 am ]
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hellraiser_xes wrote: Back in the 90's there was this huge influx of Indonesian labourers and the whole of Malaysia freaked out. It's not like we hate them, but it's just that they make-up a good share of the crimes committed here, and that's got many Malaysians trying to stay away from them. I know a few Indonesians, they're nice people actually. It's just the old timers are the ones who are still skeptical towards them. Hellraiser, isn't the problem here labour issues? I'm not going to poserishly pretend to know all about the human psyche and claim that racism is innate to all humans as some sort of survival instinct (directed at nobody in particular, FS and KK...) If one group of people are imported to do a job cheaply and to undermine the local population, then materially racism has a direct cause. It is not excusable, but it is explainable. Ultimately, both dometic and immigrant labour is being exploited equally in this case. I wouldn't say its necessarily a sign that those Malaysians are naturally racist people.