the post count +1 thread

Azrael · **Posted:** Mon Mar 09, 2009 12:48 am

dude no one said ANYTHING like "all catholics are stupid". we were talking about the people who are so blind that when they read "doctors perform abortion on a 9 year-old who was raped by her stepfather and was pregnant with twins" only notice the part in bold and nothing else.

traptunderice · **Posted:** Mon Mar 09, 2009 3:15 am

Frig is silly but DW is being equally ridiculous.

heatseeker · **Posted:** Mon Mar 09, 2009 3:16 am

Azrael wrote:

dude no one said ANYTHING like "all catholics are stupid". we were talking about the people who are so blind that when they read "doctors perform abortion on a 9 year-old who was raped by her stepfather and was pregnant with twins" only notice the part in bold and nothing else.

Zad did call Catholics "Sick fucks." Obviously, it's more excusable because that story is absolutely ridiculous, but there was definitely some attacks on Catholicism there...I completely agree with Devoted Walnut. You guys can hate on religion all you want, but the fact is that most of the people who do the most good in the world, by whatever standards, are religious in some form...of course, that's not hard fact, but has there ever been a Nobel Peace Prize winner who was an atheist? I'd be surprised.

traptunderice · **Posted:** Mon Mar 09, 2009 3:24 am

It doesn't matter how many nobel peace prize winners were atheists but Gorbachev and maybe Mandela? How many American presidents were Christians and still waged wars? This is a silly way of finding out which is better atheism or religion.

heatseeker · **Posted:** Mon Mar 09, 2009 3:50 am

traptunderice wrote:

It doesn't matter how many nobel peace prize winners were atheists but Gorbachev and maybe Mandela? How many American presidents were Christians and still waged wars? This is a silly way of finding out which is better atheism or religion.

Yeah, I admitted as much. But really, it seems pretty obvious to me that religious people probably do a lot more for their communities and abroad than atheists...just a matter of the principles that one holds. If you argue against that, I can't really prove you wrong, but I think you would be foolish if you really think otherwise.

traptunderice · **Posted:** Mon Mar 09, 2009 3:58 am

heatseeker wrote:

traptunderice wrote:

It doesn't matter how many nobel peace prize winners were atheists but Gorbachev and maybe Mandela? How many American presidents were Christians and still waged wars? This is a silly way of finding out which is better atheism or religion.

Yeah, I admitted as much. But really, it seems pretty obvious to me that religious people probably do a lot more for their communities and abroad than atheists...just a matter of the principles that one holds. If you argue against that, I can't really prove you wrong, but I think you would be foolish if you really think otherwise.

You're arguing for the obvious benefits of religious humanitarian efforts. What about all the trouble that religious humanitarian efforts cause? Churches send food to Africa yet the Vatican says that for Africans to use condoms to prevent the spread of AIDS is a sin. Examples, etc. yada yada. I'm going to pull a Frig and say that you see only the good side of religion because you come from a religion-positive environment. I'm so foolish I guess.

heatseeker · **Posted:** Mon Mar 09, 2009 4:08 am

traptunderice wrote:

heatseeker wrote:

traptunderice wrote:

It doesn't matter how many nobel peace prize winners were atheists but Gorbachev and maybe Mandela? How many American presidents were Christians and still waged wars? This is a silly way of finding out which is better atheism or religion.

Yeah, I admitted as much. But really, it seems pretty obvious to me that religious people probably do a lot more for their communities and abroad than atheists...just a matter of the principles that one holds. If you argue against that, I can't really prove you wrong, but I think you would be foolish if you really think otherwise.

You're arguing for the obvious benefits of religious humanitarian efforts. What about all the trouble that religious humanitarian efforts cause? Churches send food to Africa yet the Vatican says that for Africans to use condoms to prevent the spread of AIDS is a sin. Examples, etc. yada yada. I'm going to pull a Frig and say that you see only the good side of religion because you come from a religion-positive environment. I'm so foolish I guess.

I don't come from a religion-positive environment...I wasn't raised anything and I'm not part of any religion because I think there are fundamental pieces missing from their views of God. But I'm just stating the obvious...you can't ignore the tremendous amount of good that Christianity does in the world, something that you guys really want to do. I pretty much agree about the sex thing, I think it's ridiculous that the Church cares so much about condom usage when it doesn't hurt anybody...they would argue that it hurts the soul to have sex without meaning, but whatever. Really not that important in the grand scheme of things.

traptunderice · **Posted:** Mon Mar 09, 2009 4:38 am

America is a religion-positive environment. I can ignore the tremendous amount of good that Xtianity does because of the guilt and the bullshit damnations that come with whatever aid they give. Condoms would save lives yet the Chruch tells people not to use them. If you can't see how the aid comes with more detrimental effects than positive we simply won't agree. Condoms are "important in the grand scheme of things" when everyone has AIDS. Yeah, you're not going to get it I guess.

Who are the "you guys"? Atheists?

Cú Chulainn · **Posted:** Mon Mar 09, 2009 9:07 am

I'm sure there have been atheist nobel prize winners. And sure there are a lot of people who do good who are religious, but those good deeds could be equally done by someone of no faith. Now how many atrocities committed by religious people that nonreligious people would also have reason to commit? Name one "good deed" that could only be done by a believer for religious reasons.

ganeshaRules · **Posted:** Mon Mar 09, 2009 10:00 am

Ok, perharps there's no many peace nobel prizes that are atheist... but a great lot of physics, chemistry and medicine nobel prizes are.

And there's a lot of NGO that are not religious oriented, full of people that are atheist, agnostic, sceptic or believers in any of the great number of religions in the world...

Good people are good, bastards are bastards, believers or atheist.

Cú Chulainn · **Posted:** Mon Mar 09, 2009 10:15 am

rio wrote:

FrigidSymphony wrote:

DevotedWalnut wrote:

So I guess this story makes my grandmother a bad person for still being a catholic and going to church every week. She says the rosery when she goes on drives that take over 10 minutes. I guess because some idiots do this means everybody who practices this faith are stupid. She is probably the nicest person you could ever meet, she runs a food bank, use to run a foster house, helps raise money for the community, etc etc etc. But I guess this story makes her misguided and stupid.

You people constanly making fun of religion are as stupid as the stories you find on the internet.

And if one person makes any comment about my grandmother being stupid for whatever reason, then I am leaving this site.

Criticism of a religious organization or the misguided falsehoods that belong to that religion are not the same as criticism of one individual who happens to believe in that religion for lack of alternatives and because of upbringing.

So damn pompous... yeah sure you know why everyone believes in things mr super cool atheist :rolleyes:

What are the chances that his grandmother would still be Catholic had she been born and raised in a protestant country? Or a muslim country? Or a jewish one? Religion is determined by your upbringing, not by any absolute truth.

Goat · **Posted:** Mon Mar 09, 2009 10:54 am

heatseeker wrote:

Azrael wrote:

dude no one said ANYTHING like "all catholics are stupid". we were talking about the people who are so blind that when they read "doctors perform abortion on a 9 year-old who was raped by her stepfather and was pregnant with twins" only notice the part in bold and nothing else.

Zad did call Catholics "Sick fucks."

No, I didn't. I called the ones who excommunicated everyone but the father sick fucks, for believing that abortion is worse than child molestation.

Goat · **Posted:** Mon Mar 09, 2009 10:57 am

ganeshaRules wrote:

Good people are good, bastards are bastards, believers or atheist.

Exactly.

Cú Chulainn · **Posted:** Mon Mar 09, 2009 10:58 am

Goat wrote:

ganeshaRules wrote:

Good people are good, bastards are bastards, believers or atheist.

Exactly.

But religion is among the only things that can turn good people in to bastards.

ganeshaRules · **Posted:** Mon Mar 09, 2009 11:10 am

FrigidSymphony wrote:

Goat wrote:

ganeshaRules wrote:

Good people are good, bastards are bastards, believers or atheist.

Exactly.

But religion is among the only things that can turn good people in to bastards.

Religion, nacionalism, racism, poverty... All these things can turn good people in bastards (and a lot more).

Cú Chulainn · **Posted:** Mon Mar 09, 2009 11:14 am

ganeshaRules wrote:

FrigidSymphony wrote:

Goat wrote:

ganeshaRules wrote:

Good people are good, bastards are bastards, believers or atheist.

Exactly.

But religion is among the only things that can turn good people in to bastards.

Religion, nacionalism, racism, poverty... All these things can turn good people in bastards (and a lot more).

Disagree on racism. Racism is something that IMO automatically makes you a bastard, not something that turns you into a bastard. It means you're intolerant of a certain group of people. Religion causes intolerance. Nationalism can cause intolerance. Racism is when you're intolerant.

rio · **Posted:** Mon Mar 09, 2009 11:41 am

FrigidSymphony wrote:

rio wrote:

FrigidSymphony wrote:

DevotedWalnut wrote:

So I guess this story makes my grandmother a bad person for still being a catholic and going to church every week. She says the rosery when she goes on drives that take over 10 minutes. I guess because some idiots do this means everybody who practices this faith are stupid. She is probably the nicest person you could ever meet, she runs a food bank, use to run a foster house, helps raise money for the community, etc etc etc. But I guess this story makes her misguided and stupid.

You people constanly making fun of religion are as stupid as the stories you find on the internet.

And if one person makes any comment about my grandmother being stupid for whatever reason, then I am leaving this site.

Criticism of a religious organization or the misguided falsehoods that belong to that religion are not the same as criticism of one individual who happens to believe in that religion for lack of alternatives and because of upbringing.

So damn pompous... yeah sure you know why everyone believes in things mr super cool atheist :rolleyes:

What are the chances that his grandmother would still be Catholic had she been born and raised in a protestant country? Or a muslim country? Or a jewish one? Religion is determined by your upbringing, not by any absolute truth.

I certainly wouldn't disagree with this. And as a lifelong atheist myself I agree with a lot of this as well:

Quote:

I'm sure there have been atheist nobel prize winners. And sure there are a lot of people who do good who are religious, but those good deeds could be equally done by someone of no faith. Now how many atrocities committed by religious people that nonreligious people would also have reason to commit? Name one "good deed" that could only be done by a believer for religious reasons.

BUT what really annoys me is those atheists that think they are the enlightened ones, and that they are the solution to all the problems in the world that they assume are caused by religion.

These are often the same people that point to situations they don't really seem to have much of an understanding of, like Palestine or Northern Ireland, and quite smugly tut tut about how those conflicts are all the fault of religion. I guess it doesn't occur to them that power, territory, the flag, resources, and most of all money, are all emphatically secular gods.

rio · **Posted:** Mon Mar 09, 2009 11:42 am

FrigidSymphony wrote:

Goat wrote:

ganeshaRules wrote:

Good people are good, bastards are bastards, believers or atheist.

Exactly.

But religion is among the only things that can turn good people in to bastards.

Exhibit A, by the way

Cú Chulainn · **Posted:** Mon Mar 09, 2009 12:14 pm

rio wrote:

FrigidSymphony wrote:

rio wrote:

FrigidSymphony wrote:

DevotedWalnut wrote:

So I guess this story makes my grandmother a bad person for still being a catholic and going to church every week. She says the rosery when she goes on drives that take over 10 minutes. I guess because some idiots do this means everybody who practices this faith are stupid. She is probably the nicest person you could ever meet, she runs a food bank, use to run a foster house, helps raise money for the community, etc etc etc. But I guess this story makes her misguided and stupid.

You people constanly making fun of religion are as stupid as the stories you find on the internet.

And if one person makes any comment about my grandmother being stupid for whatever reason, then I am leaving this site.

Criticism of a religious organization or the misguided falsehoods that belong to that religion are not the same as criticism of one individual who happens to believe in that religion for lack of alternatives and because of upbringing.

So damn pompous... yeah sure you know why everyone believes in things mr super cool atheist :rolleyes:

What are the chances that his grandmother would still be Catholic had she been born and raised in a protestant country? Or a muslim country? Or a jewish one? Religion is determined by your upbringing, not by any absolute truth.

I certainly wouldn't disagree with this. And as a lifelong atheist myself I agree with a lot of this as well:

Quote:

I'm sure there have been atheist nobel prize winners. And sure there are a lot of people who do good who are religious, but those good deeds could be equally done by someone of no faith. Now how many atrocities committed by religious people that nonreligious people would also have reason to commit? Name one "good deed" that could only be done by a believer for religious reasons.

BUT what really annoys me is those atheists that think they are the enlightened ones, and that they are the solution to all the problems in the world that they assume are caused by religion.

These are often the same people that point to situations they don't really seem to have much of an understanding of, like Palestine or Northern Ireland, and quite smugly tut tut about how those conflicts are all the fault of religion. I guess it doesn't occur to them that power, territory, the flag, resources, and most of all money, are all emphatically secular gods.

I agree with you, our opinions differ only on the scale of how influential to violence different things are. In my opinion, religion is a very big cause for many conflicts, especially when muslims are involved. Admittedly politics, money, etc are also important factors.

Cú Chulainn · **Posted:** Mon Mar 09, 2009 12:14 pm

rio wrote:

FrigidSymphony wrote:

Goat wrote:

ganeshaRules wrote:

Good people are good, bastards are bastards, believers or atheist.

Exactly.

But religion is among the only things that can turn good people in to bastards.

Exhibit A, by the way

'Scuse me?

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