Metal Reviews

That so makes me want to photoshop an xmas hat on marx.

So Switzerland has voted in favour of an initiative banning minarets. Looking forward to the international press reaction.

Let's hear it for the Swiss!

I'm hoping that the humanist and secularist movement can harness it as an incentive for Islamic reform rather than letting it fall into the category of xenophobia.

Yes, because stopping them from building a certain type of building will make them stop and think about their human rights record.

No, but realizing that their behaviour is causing countries like Switzerland to limit their religious freedoms should make them think.

Ridiculous. The fanatical segments rioted when cartoons were published, Fridge. How well do you think they'll take being forbidden to build a holy building?

Of course the fanatics won't react well to it. But hopefully the moderate segments will realize that they need a reform and start cracking down on the extremists.

So collective punishment's the path, eh? It's not like moderates aren't already doing their best.

But Fridge, do you have any examples of an occasion where some kind of stern collective sanction has actually caused a group of people to "mend their ways"?

I mean, maybe the moderates might understand your logic, but it's not the moderates that need to change their ways anyway, so...

No, I don't have any examples, which is why I don't reserve much hope. I do hope, however, that this doesn't garner criticism of xenophobia (even though it is) from other European states, but is instead upheld as an example of anti-extremism among "post-enlightenment" countries (even though it's not).

And now of course I want an initiative to ban all religious edifices. Hah.

Yay for democracy Switzerland... Stupid, stupid, stupid.

Quick Fridge get on to the Guardian and let them know this is merely anti-extremism from a "post-enlightenment" country!

Bullshit. Sooner or later other European countries will have to do the same thing.

Rio: Of course the voters were motivated by xenophobia. But the person who put forward the campaign is a secularist, and I can interpret the result in a more global, optimistic way. Fuck Islam, it's a vile, hateful religion and can shut the fuck up about "tolerance".

Bah.

Do you really not see a contradiction in that? You're interpreting the result in a "global" way, by saying that it's fair and legitimate to curb the religious freedoms of an entire diverse religious grouping? I fail to see the merest hint of international progressivism there.

How can you say that a group should not be tolerated because it itself is not tolerant? This is not to mention the fact that you are labelling the entire Muslim population in Europe, the vast majority of whom are demonstrably happy to live amongst European christians and atheists, as universally ineligible to expect "tolerance".

You're polishing a turd here, I would say. Trying to make something xenophobic and illiberal into a leap forward for human rights, which is totally illogical.

@Rio

Granting "religious rights" to Islam is like giving political rights to Nazis.

I can see your point, but I just don't consider Islam worthy of any sort of tolerance of this kind

Hold up, so the far right doesn't deserve any political rights?

Hatred, violence and fascism doesn't deserve political rights.

Hooray for fighting fascism with fascism.

Obviously, the Swiss are being ridiculous here. It's not going to help anything but could make things worse.