Metal Reviews :: View topic - EMI = dumbest record label ever

a record company that has on its catalog The Beatles, Queen, Radiohead, Iron Maiden, Kate Bush, Kraftwerk, Pink Floyd, Sigur Ros etc... cannot be the dumbest, even if they're signing Korn... :roll:

The KORN contract "might be one of those deals that revolutionizes the music industry," said Rick Sales, a manager at Sanctuary Artist Management. "Or, EMI might wake up one day and wonder why they just handed KORN 10 years' worth of profits."

It's probably a very smart move indeed...

Gast1 wrote:

It's probably a very smart move indeed...

Exactly! How is signing Korn a dumb thing??

Its dumb anyway you look at it... Korn are no longer anything like as popular as they were, and never will be again.

KoRn: HUUUUUUUGE name, lots lots of touring, good live reputation. Ofcourse in mainstream eyes... hum hum. Now if you give this band 15 milion, you can MAKE them do WHATEVER you want them to. Don't you think EMI made a nice contract in which they have full control over every single note KoRn writes? They probably hire people to write songs for KoRn to play... It's not all that stupid...

a smart move indeed for sad reasons but i'm not sure that Korn will do something new in the near future since it is very likely that Jonathan Davis would get a heart attack if record another album :roll:

Eyesore wrote:

Gast1 wrote:

It's probably a very smart move indeed...

Exactly! How is signing Korn a dumb thing??

Its not dumb to sign Korn, they're semi-popular. However, it is borderline psychotic to pay them that much money up front. It is a fact that their sales have been steadily declining. Despite this, they receive more than twice the signing bonus most recording deals entail. Are you going to sit there and tell me that Korn is in the upper echelon of musical acts and deserving of such status?

It's not a very good financial move for EMI. If you consider that Korn sold 1.5 million copies of their last album and sales are dropping plus their last 2 tours went from grossing $16 million to $3 million, things look like they are going downhill.

If you figure the record company will make about $4 per CD, and sales drop to 1 million, it will take at least 4 albums for EMI to break even on CD sales. Also, even though Korn is grossing $3 million on their tour, that is not the net profit -- you have to subtract out all the costs such as manufacturing of t-shirts, crew salaries, housing, catering, insurance, etc. Their next tour may even lose money.

Korn is old news. The EMI A&R guy that signed them is gonna get fired and then Korn will have to break up from being too far in the hole to pay off the huge advance paycheck.

milkbaby wrote:

I'll go with this theory.

deathkvlt wrote:

milkbaby wrote:

I'll go with this theory.

Naa, I don't think so, EMI can make the same caculation. They are not stupid.

Author:	Adam [ Tue Sep 13, 2005 4:19 pm ]
Post subject:	EMI = dumbest record label ever
I use the following as my reasoning: http://www.metalunderground.com/news/details.cfm?newsid=15501

Author:	Stefan [ Tue Sep 13, 2005 6:49 pm ]
Post subject:
a record company that has on its catalog The Beatles, Queen, Radiohead, Iron Maiden, Kate Bush, Kraftwerk, Pink Floyd, Sigur Ros etc... cannot be the dumbest, even if they're signing Korn... :roll:

Author:	Misha [ Tue Sep 13, 2005 6:51 pm ]
Post subject:
It's probably a very smart move indeed...

Author:	Adam [ Tue Sep 13, 2005 7:00 pm ]
Post subject:
T.I.E. wrote: a record company that has on its catalog The Beatles, Queen, Radiohead, Iron Maiden, Kate Bush, Kraftwerk, Pink Floyd, Sigur Ros etc... cannot be the dumbest, even if they're signing Korn... :roll: I agree with the storied roster of EMI bands, but $15 million UP FRONT for Korn?! Somebody should lose their job for that. I was exaggerating with the subject of course, as I'm sure there have been dumber moves in the history of record companies. This was my favorite line in the article: Quote: The KORN contract "might be one of those deals that revolutionizes the music industry," said Rick Sales, a manager at Sanctuary Artist Management. "Or, EMI might wake up one day and wonder why they just handed KORN 10 years' worth of profits." I tend to think the latter will happen.

Author:	Eyesore [ Tue Sep 13, 2005 7:00 pm ]
Post subject:
Gast1 wrote: It's probably a very smart move indeed... Exactly! How is signing Korn a dumb thing??

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Author:	Adam [ Tue Sep 13, 2005 7:03 pm ]
Post subject:
Eyesore wrote: Gast1 wrote: It's probably a very smart move indeed... Exactly! How is signing Korn a dumb thing?? Its not dumb to sign Korn, they're semi-popular. However, it is borderline psychotic to pay them that much money up front. It is a fact that their sales have been steadily declining. Despite this, they receive more than twice the signing bonus most recording deals entail. Are you going to sit there and tell me that Korn is in the upper echelon of musical acts and deserving of such status?

Author:	rio [ Tue Sep 13, 2005 7:33 pm ]
Post subject:
Its dumb anyway you look at it... Korn are no longer anything like as popular as they were, and never will be again.

Author:	Goat [ Tue Sep 13, 2005 7:51 pm ]
Post subject:
rio wrote: Its dumb anyway you look at it... Korn are no longer anything like as popular as they were, and never will be again. Well, you never know. I was leafing through Kerrang the other day, and saw that they gave one of their live shows top marks. And it was sold out, so maybe the band are planning a comeback? Maybe they've gone metalcore? Who knows, but suits are generally clever in money matters, just because us musical fascists can't see the wood for the trees.

Author:	Misha [ Tue Sep 13, 2005 8:24 pm ]
Post subject:
KoRn: HUUUUUUUGE name, lots lots of touring, good live reputation. Ofcourse in mainstream eyes... hum hum. Now if you give this band 15 milion, you can MAKE them do WHATEVER you want them to. Don't you think EMI made a nice contract in which they have full control over every single note KoRn writes? They probably hire people to write songs for KoRn to play... It's not all that stupid...

Author:	Adam [ Tue Sep 13, 2005 8:33 pm ]
Post subject:
Gast1 wrote: KoRn: HUUUUUUUGE name, lots lots of touring, good live reputation. Ofcourse in mainstream eyes... hum hum. Now if you give this band 15 milion, you can MAKE them do WHATEVER you want them to. Don't you think EMI made a nice contract in which they have full control over every single note KoRn writes? They probably hire people to write songs for KoRn to play... It's not all that stupid... Your point has merit. I just feel its a huge risk to pour that much money into a band who appears to be on the downslope. You have to remember, their name is huge, but that can be negative. By that I mean that there are a great deal of people who have permanently sworn off Korn already. I don't think too many of those old fans will be coming back regardless. To me, Korn is like a phase that high schoolers grow out of. EMI is just hoping they can ride the trend, and they very well could end up riding it straight down the toilet.

Author:	Radagast [ Tue Sep 13, 2005 10:54 pm ]
Post subject:
I was shocked by this move. Didn't Korn's last album totally bomb? The one previous couldn't have done too much better.

Author:	Fingon [ Wed Sep 14, 2005 1:58 pm ]
Post subject:
a smart move indeed for sad reasons but i'm not sure that Korn will do something new in the near future since it is very likely that Jonathan Davis would get a heart attack if record another album :roll:

Author:	Goat [ Wed Sep 14, 2005 2:28 pm ]
Post subject:
Fingon wrote: a smart move indeed for sad reasons but i'm not sure that Korn will do something new in the near future since it is very likely that Jonathan Davis would get a heart attack if record another album :roll: maybe they're trying to start a nu-metal revival, what with all the metalcore kids wanting something new...

Author:	milkbaby [ Thu Sep 15, 2005 12:28 am ]
Post subject:
It's not a very good financial move for EMI. If you consider that Korn sold 1.5 million copies of their last album and sales are dropping plus their last 2 tours went from grossing $16 million to $3 million, things look like they are going downhill. If you figure the record company will make about $4 per CD, and sales drop to 1 million, it will take at least 4 albums for EMI to break even on CD sales. Also, even though Korn is grossing $3 million on their tour, that is not the net profit -- you have to subtract out all the costs such as manufacturing of t-shirts, crew salaries, housing, catering, insurance, etc. Their next tour may even lose money. Korn is old news. The EMI A&R guy that signed them is gonna get fired and then Korn will have to break up from being too far in the hole to pay off the huge advance paycheck.

Author:	Eyesore [ Thu Sep 15, 2005 2:19 am ]
Post subject:
Seems to be a little different than your normal record deal: Hits Daily Double, the companion web site of music industry tip sheet HITS, has issued the following report: The partnership between KORN and EMI Music is most accurately described as a $25 million investment by EMI in a new company that is "in the KORN business," according to one familiar with the negotiations. Thus, rather than shelling out an advance to the band, as would happen in the traditional artist-label relationship, EMI will function as a profit participant in the band's business for two LPs and their accompanying cycles. The arrangement is characterized by insiders as a series of separate deals from the various revenue streams that live within the context of the new KORN partnership. The challenge facing the two parties, says one in the know, was to find a way to align the interests of the label with those of the artist, so that the decisions made would ultimately benefit both parties. The concept behind this arrangement, the same source clarifies, was to make the pie bigger for everyone, so that the artists and their partners both make money. The chief negotiators of the deal were band attorney Gary Stiffelman, who is co-counsel to KORN, along with John Branca (both are with Ziffren, Brittenham, Branca & Fischer) and EMI business affairs exec Ian Hanson. Significantly, it was initiated by EMI rulers Levy and Munns after they’d listened to the completed KORN album, the quality and potential of which compelled them to enter into this intricate, mathematically complex partnership with the band. Read the rest of the article at www.hitsdailydouble.com.

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Author:	Eyesore [ Thu Sep 15, 2005 1:57 am ]
Post subject:
afeigel wrote: Eyesore wrote: Gast1 wrote: It's probably a very smart move indeed... Exactly! How is signing Korn a dumb thing?? Its not dumb to sign Korn, they're semi-popular. However, it is borderline psychotic to pay them that much money up front. It is a fact that their sales have been steadily declining. Despite this, they receive more than twice the signing bonus most recording deals entail. Are you going to sit there and tell me that Korn is in the upper echelon of musical acts and deserving of such status? Yes, for what style Korn plays, they are sitting right at the top. $15 Million really isn't a lot of money these days! The label will recoup that money within the first month of the albums release.

Author:	lizardtail [ Thu Sep 15, 2005 2:25 am ]
Post subject:
holy shit that's complicated. I bet Korn don't understand half of that contract. they should go necro and put out all their work through their own label, I'm sure they're rich enough to.

Author:	deathkvlt [ Mon Sep 26, 2005 6:09 am ]
Post subject:
milkbaby wrote: It's not a very good financial move for EMI. If you consider that Korn sold 1.5 million copies of their last album and sales are dropping plus their last 2 tours went from grossing $16 million to $3 million, things look like they are going downhill. If you figure the record company will make about $4 per CD, and sales drop to 1 million, it will take at least 4 albums for EMI to break even on CD sales. Also, even though Korn is grossing $3 million on their tour, that is not the net profit -- you have to subtract out all the costs such as manufacturing of t-shirts, crew salaries, housing, catering, insurance, etc. Their next tour may even lose money. Korn is old news. The EMI A&R guy that signed them is gonna get fired and then Korn will have to break up from being too far in the hole to pay off the huge advance paycheck. I'll go with this theory.

Author:	Misha [ Mon Sep 26, 2005 10:25 pm ]
Post subject:
deathkvlt wrote: milkbaby wrote: It's not a very good financial move for EMI. If you consider that Korn sold 1.5 million copies of their last album and sales are dropping plus their last 2 tours went from grossing $16 million to $3 million, things look like they are going downhill. If you figure the record company will make about $4 per CD, and sales drop to 1 million, it will take at least 4 albums for EMI to break even on CD sales. Also, even though Korn is grossing $3 million on their tour, that is not the net profit -- you have to subtract out all the costs such as manufacturing of t-shirts, crew salaries, housing, catering, insurance, etc. Their next tour may even lose money. Korn is old news. The EMI A&R guy that signed them is gonna get fired and then Korn will have to break up from being too far in the hole to pay off the huge advance paycheck. I'll go with this theory. Naa, I don't think so, EMI can make the same caculation. They are not stupid.

Author:	deathkvlt [ Mon Sep 26, 2005 11:26 pm ]
Post subject:
Gast1 wrote: deathkvlt wrote: milkbaby wrote: It's not a very good financial move for EMI. If you consider that Korn sold 1.5 million copies of their last album and sales are dropping plus their last 2 tours went from grossing $16 million to $3 million, things look like they are going downhill. If you figure the record company will make about $4 per CD, and sales drop to 1 million, it will take at least 4 albums for EMI to break even on CD sales. Also, even though Korn is grossing $3 million on their tour, that is not the net profit -- you have to subtract out all the costs such as manufacturing of t-shirts, crew salaries, housing, catering, insurance, etc. Their next tour may even lose money. Korn is old news. The EMI A&R guy that signed them is gonna get fired and then Korn will have to break up from being too far in the hole to pay off the huge advance paycheck. I'll go with this theory. Naa, I don't think so, EMI can make the same caculation. They are not stupid. You're right, except you're wrong.