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 Post subject: Korn-you-cope-ere?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 11:33 am 
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So I stuck Blind on earlier today to psyche myself up for the review I'm planning of the ess slash tee album, and... Jesus Christ, I don't remember it being quite this bad. Simplistic playing (aside from drums, which are ok) awful vocals, it's like a demo from Pearl Jam if they were mentally disabled.

Is there really merit to this album? Make an argument in its favour, someone.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 11:40 am 
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Bitch, the dynamic variations are brilliant. I keep saying this. Also look at it for when it was released and it's impact on the metal community. Definitely worth reviewing.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 11:42 am 
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Einherjar

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Well, I'm right with you on this one Goat... But since you needed something positive about this, I went to allmusic. Look what I found :
"With little publicity, radio play, or MTV exposure, Korn took their eponymous 1994 debut to platinum status. Like all unexpected successes, it's easier to understand its popularity in retrospect. Although they disdain the "metal" label, there's no question that Korn are among the vanguard of post-grunge alt-metal outfits. Borrowing from Jane's Addiction, Rage Against the Machine, Pantera, Helmet, Faith No More, Anthrax, Public Enemy, and N.W.A, Korn developed a testosterone-fueled, ultra-aggressive metal-rap hybrid. They're relentless, both in their musical attack and in lead singer Jonathan Davis' bleak, violent lyrics. Tales of abuse and alienation run rampant throughout the record. It's often disturbing and, to some ears, even offensive, but their music can have a cathartic effect that makes up for their vulgarity and questionable lapses in taste. It's a powerful sound and one that actually builds on the funk-metal innovations of the late '80s/early '90s instead of merely replicating them"
:huh:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 11:47 am 
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I don't really agree all that much with that (the lyrics are definitely a bit whiney at times), but I think that musically there's a lot to be said for it.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 11:48 am 
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Yeah, but you like Nickelback... :rolleyes:
(and this time it's an argument and not just a joke)


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 12:00 pm 
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Lucifer's Son wrote:
Yeah, but you like Nickelback... :rolleyes:
(and this time it's an argument and not just a joke)


I don't like Nickelback for the same reasons I like Korn, or more "true" metal for that matter. Reasons for liking something change with the genre. If I said I liked Nickelback for the same reasons I liked, say, Spiral Architect, you'd have a point. But I don't. I like Spiral Architect because it's brilliantly composed and very well technically executed. I like Nickelback because it's good, fun rocking shit.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 12:08 pm 
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I got that Frigid.
I just wanted to point out that you don't always have the best taste in music... :wink:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 12:10 pm 
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Lucifer's Son wrote:
I got that Frigid.
I just wanted to point out that you don't always have the best taste in music... :wink:


That's not a valid argument, nor does it detract from what I might say in regard to other bands.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 12:15 pm 
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FrigidSymphony wrote:
I don't really agree all that much with that (the lyrics are definitely a bit whiney at times), but I think that musically there's a lot to be said for it.


What is there to be said for it, musically? It may have been a massive influence on Deftones, Sepultura and so on, but as an album itself I'm finding it hard to see the value.

I suppose it is rather disturbing, in a 'look, I'm listening to a record made about child abuse!' sort of way, but I wouldn't say it was ultra-aggressive. Primus did the Funk-Metal thing in a much more enjoyable and musically superior way.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 12:18 pm 
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FrigidSymphony wrote:
Lucifer's Son wrote:
I got that Frigid.
I just wanted to point out that you don't always have the best taste in music... :wink:


That's not a valid argument, nor does it detract from what I might say in regard to other bands.

Never said it was... Just that it unvalidates your opinion to all things nu & alt. metal... But that's just my opinion.

And, back to Korn, I blame them in helping the nu metal hype to sprout. That's a good enough argument not to review them on a metal site.


Last edited by Lucifer's Son on Tue Apr 21, 2009 12:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 12:18 pm 
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Goat wrote:
FrigidSymphony wrote:
I don't really agree all that much with that (the lyrics are definitely a bit whiney at times), but I think that musically there's a lot to be said for it.


What is there to be said for it, musically? It may have been a massive influence on Deftones, Sepultura and so on, but as an album itself I'm finding it hard to see the value.

I suppose it is rather disturbing, in a 'look, I'm listening to a record made about child abuse!' sort of way, but I wouldn't say it was ultra-aggressive. Primus did the Funk-Metal thing in a much more enjoyable and musically superior way.


They're not trying to be complex, they're trying to give you a punch in the balls. And they succeed pretty well by combining the simple grooves with some very well placed dynamics.

I guess to some extent you've just gotta like it. The same thing could be said about, say, Willie Nelson (influential but Hank Williams did it better, bla bla bla), but in the end you just have to like it. If you don't like it, I recommend not reviewing it.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 12:20 pm 
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Could you explain these dynamics for me, Frigid? Honestly, I'm just curious.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 12:24 pm 
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metal_xxx wrote:
Could you explain these dynamics for me, Frigid? Honestly, I'm just curious.


By dynamics I mean how they use volumes, presence of instruments and conveying attitude. I can't point out specific minutes in specific songs (I'm in school), but mainly it's the way they'll "build up" to some big aggressive explosion kinda thing, and they'll do it diversely enough and well enough that it's almost always effective. Of course listening to the cd with an attitude of cynicism or prejudice won't help.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 12:27 pm 
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FrigidSymphony wrote:
metal_xxx wrote:
Could you explain these dynamics for me, Frigid? Honestly, I'm just curious.


By dynamics I mean how they use volumes, presence of instruments and conveying attitude. I can't point out specific minutes in specific songs (I'm in school), but mainly it's the way they'll "build up" to some big aggressive explosion kinda thing, and they'll do it diversely enough and well enough that it's almost always effective. Of course listening to the cd with an attitude of cynicism or prejudice won't help.


When I listened to it, back when it was released and told to be the "next big thing", I had no prejudice against it but I've always found it sucked and just ripped Faith No More "metal" elements in a totally uninspired and boring way...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 12:29 pm 
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Lucifer's Son wrote:
FrigidSymphony wrote:
metal_xxx wrote:
Could you explain these dynamics for me, Frigid? Honestly, I'm just curious.


By dynamics I mean how they use volumes, presence of instruments and conveying attitude. I can't point out specific minutes in specific songs (I'm in school), but mainly it's the way they'll "build up" to some big aggressive explosion kinda thing, and they'll do it diversely enough and well enough that it's almost always effective. Of course listening to the cd with an attitude of cynicism or prejudice won't help.


When I listened to it, back when it was released and told to be the "next big thing", I had no prejudice against it but I've always found it sucked and just ripped Faith No More "metal" elements in a totally uninspired and boring way...


Sure, that's your opinion. They're not really trying to be metal, and there is a lot of value in the album.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 1:56 pm 
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By the by, I don't agree that I shouldn't review it if I don't like it. This site has every single Rush album rated, Genesis and Yes, Foo Fighters and Muse, yet we're too snobby for Korn? If an album is poor or hasn't stood the test of time, a review should reflect that. Just reviewing things you like is pointless and silly - describing something and explaining why it's not good is a challenge I relish.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 2:20 pm 
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Goat wrote:
By the by, I don't agree that I shouldn't review it if I don't like it. This site has every single Rush album rated, Genesis and Yes, Foo Fighters and Muse, yet we're too snobby for Korn? If an album is poor or hasn't stood the test of time, a review should reflect that. Just reviewing things you like is pointless and silly - describing something and explaining why it's not good is a challenge I relish.


I just don't like the idea of reviewing something you're already prejudiced against. You'd never submit a rap review written by a metal fan to a rap site, would you?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 2:57 pm 
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FrigidSymphony wrote:
Goat wrote:
By the by, I don't agree that I shouldn't review it if I don't like it. This site has every single Rush album rated, Genesis and Yes, Foo Fighters and Muse, yet we're too snobby for Korn? If an album is poor or hasn't stood the test of time, a review should reflect that. Just reviewing things you like is pointless and silly - describing something and explaining why it's not good is a challenge I relish.


I just don't like the idea of reviewing something you're already prejudiced against. You'd never submit a rap review written by a metal fan to a rap site, would you?


Why not? Being a fan of (some) rap, I'm sure I can write something that's fair. I wouldn't call it prejudice, not liking an album, either. I approached the last Disturbed with an open mind and liked it, I approached this with an open mind and didn't. When people want or don't want to see something reviewed here, it's down to wanting to see something that confirms their opinion of it, have it set in stone, so to speak...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 3:02 pm 
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You should review some Ice-T! :D


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 3:20 pm 
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Goat wrote:
FrigidSymphony wrote:
Goat wrote:
By the by, I don't agree that I shouldn't review it if I don't like it. This site has every single Rush album rated, Genesis and Yes, Foo Fighters and Muse, yet we're too snobby for Korn? If an album is poor or hasn't stood the test of time, a review should reflect that. Just reviewing things you like is pointless and silly - describing something and explaining why it's not good is a challenge I relish.


I just don't like the idea of reviewing something you're already prejudiced against. You'd never submit a rap review written by a metal fan to a rap site, would you?


Why not? Being a fan of (some) rap, I'm sure I can write something that's fair. I wouldn't call it prejudice, not liking an album, either. I approached the last Disturbed with an open mind and liked it, I approached this with an open mind and didn't. When people want or don't want to see something reviewed here, it's down to wanting to see something that confirms their opinion of it, have it set in stone, so to speak...


Mmh. I get it, but I'm still worried about prejudice, but whatever. Go ahead, review it, I just hope you recognize some of the value in it.

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