Metal Reviews

I disagree with you about Immortal, but I see your point. However, I think when a band becomes more popular, people who otherwise wouldn't hear the band do so out of choice and become haters. With underground bands only people who want to listen to them do so, which is why they get much less scorn from people.

yeah

Good point. Though, in all fairness, I've seen many bands who had a loyal underground following. But once these bands gained mainstream acceptance (despite not changing their sound at all or simply altering it ever so slightly), some fans chose to turn on them because of their obsessive need to "be cool and listen only to underground music while dwelling alone in my parents' dark, unfinished basement." Case in point: Lamb of God. Neither Sacrament nor Ashes Of The Wake showed the band seriously departing from their roots, and yet some people still chose to turn on LOG just because they signed onto a major record label and hit the Billboard Top 30. For the record, I think Sacrament is possibly LOG's best album yet.

That's also true. I think it's a little of the former, a little of the latter.

Believe me, I've pondered it, and I don't care. I like some popular music, just rarely popular metal. Metalcore bands (except Converge-are they metalcore?) never did anything for me, as does 99.5% of any music that uses pop song structures.

The problem with your Immortal versus SOAD example is that underground bm fans consider Immortal (at least since Blizzard Beasts) to basically be shit. Immortal is considered a mainstream bastardization of black metal. If you said that you'd take say, SOAD over Negura Bunget or Drudkh, for example, you'd have a better chance of shocking or at least mildly annoying some here.

As for me, I'll take Immortal (Norsecore mainstream or not) anyday over Serj and his the other Armenian boys. But I'd take Tool over both.

edit-I noticed you mentioned LoG in your example. I think they are listenable, just something I'd never get an album of. Other than LoG's awful video for the first single off Sacrament, I didn't notice any catering to the mainstream.

Oh gawd even the thought of that made my blood pressure skyrocket and start blastbeating my eardrums.

That would "mildly annoy" you? I'd just laugh it off.

I can't say that I'm much a fan of metalcore either, with the exceptions of LOG (if they really count as metalcore) and Mastodon (Leviathan would've REALLY benefited from better production, though). But I don't "hate it just because it's popular" the way some metal fans do (I don't mean anybody here in particular). I think it's really pathetic how some metal fans have such a need to be "better than everybody else and listen only to the most obscure crap I can find." Suppose death metal and black metal somehow became socially acceptable (without a single change in their tone/attitude). I guarantee you some metal fans would drop both genres like a bad habit.

I agree with that...a lot of metal fans definitely have some kind of prejudice against popular music. What comes to mind for me is metalheads getting annoyed when "mallcore kiddies" start liking a good band...who cares? If anything, it's good that the mallcore kiddies are listening to something good. It's not like it takes away from the music at all. I can kind of understand when a band releases a CD that changes its style a bit to be more accessible, but in this case there's no change in the music at all, yet people still get annoyed.

I don't think that "metalcore" is used as a term to classify all popular metal, though, except by those who have no idea what they're talking about.

I like some metalcore, not really whats popular though. It kind of confuses me when people call a band like Mastodon metalcore though because I really don't see that at all >.>

I agree. From what I've observed, it's more like it's a term applied to anything with -coreish vocals, especially but not limited to if it sucks. It seems everyone who slams metalcore has some favorite metalcore band to namedrop in case they get accused of slamming metalcore just because it's metalcore.

I totally agree.They're nothing like Unearth or any of those bands

Yeah they're more of like a Metallica-Neurosis-Melvins-some prog rock weird hybrid than what I think of as metalcore.

I would agree with you, except for the neurosis comparison, but i haven't heard any albums fully, just the singles so i don't know . Can anyone here defend calling Mastodon metalcore?

They're kind of in that gray area. They do have a heavy hardcore/punk influence, as most metalcore bands do. But, on the other hand, what they play is usually thrash riffs intermixed with some grunge stylings. I agree that they sound nothing like Unearth, etc.

I wouldn't say I have a prejudice against popular music, and I don't really think that's an attitude that makes a lot of sense. It's more like, I know what music that is popular typically has to offer, and I'm mostly not interested. I think there's a distinction there, but I might not have worded it very well. Anyway, something can be decent and become reasonably popular, particularly over time. On the other hand, if we're talking about "manufactured" music, then that's a different subject, and yeah, I'm pretty prejudiced against that. Virtually all of that, and pretty much all recent popular music, I really don't even pay any attention to though.

As for the mallcore kids, I really don't pay much attention to what they're listening to And it's not like I go out of my way to give anyone any grief about what they're listening to or anything. The problem, however, is that many of them are (from my general experiences) pretty much just another group of casual listeners but don't really understand and accept that. There are just certain kinds of people that you cannot have a musical discussion with or any respect for because they think they - 1) are really special, 2) think they know far more than they actually do, 3) blurt out a lot of nonsense, and 4) have a really angsty, shitty, "fuck you" attitude.

So, although I don't care what they listen to or feel any kind of resentment when they like something that is really good, if they have that attitude and carry it over and start trying to butt in on more serious, knowledgeable listeners and their discussions, it can be really frustrating. And if that sounds a bit elitist or like a run-on sentence, oh well.

And I've hardly ever listened to any metalcore, so I really can't comment on it.

-Tyrion

Totally agreed. If anything, I'd actually be happy to see one of my favorite bands gaining a little mainstream recognition and making some money through their music. Whether some elitist metal fans may like to admit it or not, EVERY metal band wants to make money with their music. Otherwise, why would they even be "selling" it in the first place? Why not just destribute it for free over the internet? And why would we still have to pay money to see them live? If a band deliberately strips down their sound for mainstream acceptance, then there's cause to be worried. But if the band simply signs onto a major label with little change in their sound (ie. LOG), why complain? It's as if some metal fans don't even like the actual bands so much as they like the whole "coolness" of listening to underground music.

That kind of thing is what I was making fun of with my Agoraphobic Nosebleed April Fools Joke a week and a half ago.

Wanting to make some money is a pretty vague concept though. There's always the questions of how much and to what ends? There are two pretty extreme ends of the spectrum here and a lot of room in between. The only thing that matters to me is whether an artist is compromising their art in order to make more money. And even if they do, particularly if it's only a little compromise, I still might like it anyway.

But it's a tossup for me as to whether I would have less respect and interest for a band that wanted to give their stuff away for free or one that pretty much just wants to make ten million dollars from making crap. To me, both are ethically unsound.

-Tyrion

For most musicians being in a band is just like an expensive, more time consuming hobby. Musicians need to eat and cover expenses just like anyone else so the only financially a feasible way a band could do what you're talking about is if at least one of the members was a millionaire. It's not like a promoter is going to get a band who wants to let people in for free play, or a label will sign or promote a band who is giving their album away for free.

You certainly are right that some metal fans would drop black/death metal like a bad habit if it got popular but they weren't real fans of the music to begin with: they were just the average insecure person with identity issues. This obviously happens with people in all walks of life whose major concern is to appear "with it" in regards to whatever peer group they are in.

I am a fan of some types of black metal and if for some reason Drudkh or Negura Bunget (just using the bands I mentioned earlier) did get really popular without stylistically changing I'd be a fraud of a music fan if I stopped liking them. But I wouldn't stop liking them, instead I'd be thrilled and mystified as to why people suddenly got longer attention spans.