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Rhys
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 Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 10:49 am Post subject: |
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| Misha wrote: | | Must it be metal? |
Bah! As if. Fire away!
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| huskerc7 wrote: | | I listen to more black metal than anyone at the moment but it's ironic as fuck. |
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Rhys
Karma Whore
Joined: 01 Feb 2006
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Location: Upon the high horse of self-destruction
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| Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 10:55 am Post subject: |
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| fluffy_ferret wrote: | That's exactly what i said?
| following the reaper wrote: | | fluffy_ferret wrote: | Wasn't this a discussion about technical proficiency and not how good you think the albums actually are? ;)
| Pasqua wrote: | | Quote: | | Wintersun is the first thing that came to mind. |
I've just downloaded their first album and gave it a few spins.
It's very good, thanks for the tip, I'll keep an eye on them.
But I still think Hatebreeder is better. I don't think it's crazy to think that, just look at Hatebreeder's scores and Wintersun's, Hatebreeder got 3 100's and one 97. So if thinking Hatebreeder's better is crazy, guess I'm not the only one 
One thing I have to admit, Wintersun's debut is a lot better than COB's Something Wild. So there's potential there, maybe their second could be even better. Death and the Healing is AWESOME, they have killer melodies here and there, but there are times the drum goes too fast to the point it becomes annoying. And I think Hatebreeder has a lot more catchy riffs spread throughout the songs than Wintersun's. Not only catchy, but heavy and melodic as hell.
Anyway, thanks for the tip, I loved it. Gonna check other bands mentioned here now. |
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Technical proficiency has nothing to do with how good an album is. |
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Well, not really. You kinda said it in your other post, but i meant it in a kinda different way.
Even songwriting skills are nothing without the right passion, and purpose in writing that music. Refer to the thread in General music discussion titled "underground, who needs it?"
So a band with good songwriting skills who are only writing to make money will not be good. A band who are writing music to make convey a message and for no alterior motives can rule, even without songwriting skills. IE - Burzum. Simple, absolutely non-technical music. However, brilliant.
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| huskerc7 wrote: | | I listen to more black metal than anyone at the moment but it's ironic as fuck. |
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Misha
MetalReviews Staff
Joined: 26 Sep 2004
Posts: 5871
Location: Veldhoven - The Netherlands
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| Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 12:17 pm Post subject: |
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| following the reaper wrote: | | fluffy_ferret wrote: | That's exactly what i said?
| following the reaper wrote: | | fluffy_ferret wrote: | Wasn't this a discussion about technical proficiency and not how good you think the albums actually are? ;)
| Pasqua wrote: | | Quote: | | Wintersun is the first thing that came to mind. |
I've just downloaded their first album and gave it a few spins.
It's very good, thanks for the tip, I'll keep an eye on them.
But I still think Hatebreeder is better. I don't think it's crazy to think that, just look at Hatebreeder's scores and Wintersun's, Hatebreeder got 3 100's and one 97. So if thinking Hatebreeder's better is crazy, guess I'm not the only one
One thing I have to admit, Wintersun's debut is a lot better than COB's Something Wild. So there's potential there, maybe their second could be even better. Death and the Healing is AWESOME, they have killer melodies here and there, but there are times the drum goes too fast to the point it becomes annoying. And I think Hatebreeder has a lot more catchy riffs spread throughout the songs than Wintersun's. Not only catchy, but heavy and melodic as hell.
Anyway, thanks for the tip, I loved it. Gonna check other bands mentioned here now. |
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Technical proficiency has nothing to do with how good an album is. |
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Well, not really. You kinda said it in your other post, but i meant it in a kinda different way.
Even songwriting skills are nothing without the right passion, and purpose in writing that music. Refer to the thread in General music discussion titled "underground, who needs it?"
So a band with good songwriting skills who are only writing to make money will not be good. A band who are writing music to make convey a message and for no alterior motives can rule, even without songwriting skills. IE - Burzum. Simple, absolutely non-technical music. However, brilliant. |
This thread wasn't about good music however, this thread was about technical perfomance. Like FF said.
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Rhys
Karma Whore
Joined: 01 Feb 2006
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Location: Upon the high horse of self-destruction
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| Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 1:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Misha wrote: | | following the reaper wrote: | | fluffy_ferret wrote: | That's exactly what i said?
| following the reaper wrote: | | fluffy_ferret wrote: | Wasn't this a discussion about technical proficiency and not how good you think the albums actually are? ;)
| Pasqua wrote: | | Quote: | | Wintersun is the first thing that came to mind. |
I've just downloaded their first album and gave it a few spins.
It's very good, thanks for the tip, I'll keep an eye on them.
But I still think Hatebreeder is better. I don't think it's crazy to think that, just look at Hatebreeder's scores and Wintersun's, Hatebreeder got 3 100's and one 97. So if thinking Hatebreeder's better is crazy, guess I'm not the only one
One thing I have to admit, Wintersun's debut is a lot better than COB's Something Wild. So there's potential there, maybe their second could be even better. Death and the Healing is AWESOME, they have killer melodies here and there, but there are times the drum goes too fast to the point it becomes annoying. And I think Hatebreeder has a lot more catchy riffs spread throughout the songs than Wintersun's. Not only catchy, but heavy and melodic as hell.
Anyway, thanks for the tip, I loved it. Gonna check other bands mentioned here now. |
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Technical proficiency has nothing to do with how good an album is. |
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Well, not really. You kinda said it in your other post, but i meant it in a kinda different way.
Even songwriting skills are nothing without the right passion, and purpose in writing that music. Refer to the thread in General music discussion titled "underground, who needs it?"
So a band with good songwriting skills who are only writing to make money will not be good. A band who are writing music to make convey a message and for no alterior motives can rule, even without songwriting skills. IE - Burzum. Simple, absolutely non-technical music. However, brilliant. |
This thread wasn't about good music however, this thread was about technical perfomance. Like FF said. |
So im saying that this thread is paradoxical, because technical performance is irrelevant to good music.
Who would listen to technically sound music that sucked?
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| huskerc7 wrote: | | I listen to more black metal than anyone at the moment but it's ironic as fuck. |
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rio
MetalReviews Staff
Joined: 17 Sep 2004
Posts: 8192
Location: Leeds, UK
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| Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 2:41 pm Post subject: |
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| metalNESS wrote: | | rio wrote: | | metalNESS wrote: | | rio wrote: | | noodles wrote: |
ps. improv is boring |
No it isn't.
And we're not talking about what they could do if they learnt, we're talking about what they do do already... |
So when Miles Davis was born he could instantly play improv jazz? He practiced improve, b/c jazz focuses more on it. If classical music focused more on improv I’m sure there would be classical musicians who could improvise, but it doesn't, so there aren’t any. |
Right, and improvisation at the highest level frequently involves a larger amount of technical ability than the equivalent in classical music. Irrespective of whether classical musicians could do it with practice, the fact is that they don't practice it so they can't. I'm not sure what you mean here. |
I get that a lot. You said | Quote: | | And we're not talking about what they could do if they learnt, we're talking about what they do already... |
I was saying, ok if they learned how to play improv I'm sure they could. You can't say classical musicians can't do it, if they practiced I'm sure some of them could. However, they have no need to b/c the genre itself doesn't concentrate on improvisation. Make any sense? 
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Makes sense  , but IMO saying they can't do it isn't the same as saying they couldn't. What I mean is, regardless of what a classical musician would have the capability to achieve with effort, if you took a pro jazz player at random and compared it to a pro classical player at random right now, I would bet on the former to be technically at a slightly higher level, just because of what they are required to do by their profession.
Anyway, there's no real disagreement here beyond semantics 
PS: that's not to say there isn't a lot of overlap... I know plenty of lame jazz musicians, and awesome classical ones. I'm just talking about very general trends...
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Resting on laurels completely invented,
Word acrobatics performed with both harness and net." |
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rio
MetalReviews Staff
Joined: 17 Sep 2004
Posts: 8192
Location: Leeds, UK
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| Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 2:45 pm Post subject: |
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FTR, many people like to hear virtuosity for the sake of virtuosity. Just as people like to watch acrobats or jugglers or whatever purely for the sake of seeing something impressive that hardly anyone else can do, so it is for many people listening to technically amazing musicians.
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Misha
MetalReviews Staff
Joined: 26 Sep 2004
Posts: 5871
Location: Veldhoven - The Netherlands
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| Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 2:50 pm Post subject: |
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| following the reaper wrote: | | Misha wrote: | | following the reaper wrote: | | fluffy_ferret wrote: | That's exactly what i said?
| following the reaper wrote: | | fluffy_ferret wrote: | Wasn't this a discussion about technical proficiency and not how good you think the albums actually are? ;)
| Pasqua wrote: | | Quote: | | Wintersun is the first thing that came to mind. |
I've just downloaded their first album and gave it a few spins.
It's very good, thanks for the tip, I'll keep an eye on them.
But I still think Hatebreeder is better. I don't think it's crazy to think that, just look at Hatebreeder's scores and Wintersun's, Hatebreeder got 3 100's and one 97. So if thinking Hatebreeder's better is crazy, guess I'm not the only one
One thing I have to admit, Wintersun's debut is a lot better than COB's Something Wild. So there's potential there, maybe their second could be even better. Death and the Healing is AWESOME, they have killer melodies here and there, but there are times the drum goes too fast to the point it becomes annoying. And I think Hatebreeder has a lot more catchy riffs spread throughout the songs than Wintersun's. Not only catchy, but heavy and melodic as hell.
Anyway, thanks for the tip, I loved it. Gonna check other bands mentioned here now. |
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Technical proficiency has nothing to do with how good an album is. |
|
Well, not really. You kinda said it in your other post, but i meant it in a kinda different way.
Even songwriting skills are nothing without the right passion, and purpose in writing that music. Refer to the thread in General music discussion titled "underground, who needs it?"
So a band with good songwriting skills who are only writing to make money will not be good. A band who are writing music to make convey a message and for no alterior motives can rule, even without songwriting skills. IE - Burzum. Simple, absolutely non-technical music. However, brilliant. |
This thread wasn't about good music however, this thread was about technical perfomance. Like FF said. |
So im saying that this thread is paradoxical, because technical performance is irrelevant to good music.
Who would listen to technically sound music that sucked? |
The thread doesn't say technical performance is relevant. The thread about songs about war doesn't say songs about war are logically good songs either.
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Rhys
Karma Whore
Joined: 01 Feb 2006
Posts: 4574
Location: Upon the high horse of self-destruction
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| Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 2:53 pm Post subject: |
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| rio wrote: | | FTR, many people like to hear virtuosity for the sake of virtuosity. Just as people like to watch acrobats or jugglers or whatever purely for the sake of seeing something impressive that hardly anyone else can do, so it is for many people listening to technically amazing musicians. |
People.....not me. Whats that from, the matrix? I just really dont care about the technicality of music much at all. Guess ill slither back into the black metal threads around.....
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| huskerc7 wrote: | | I listen to more black metal than anyone at the moment but it's ironic as fuck. |
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rio
MetalReviews Staff
Joined: 17 Sep 2004
Posts: 8192
Location: Leeds, UK
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| Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 2:58 pm Post subject: |
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| following the reaper wrote: | | rio wrote: | | FTR, many people like to hear virtuosity for the sake of virtuosity. Just as people like to watch acrobats or jugglers or whatever purely for the sake of seeing something impressive that hardly anyone else can do, so it is for many people listening to technically amazing musicians. |
People.....not me. Whats that from, the matrix? I just really dont care about the technicality of music much at all. Guess ill slither back into the black metal threads around..... |
Yes it doesn't sound like the Prog/Power forums are your natural environment 
Me neither, however, so I too am leaving.
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Word acrobatics performed with both harness and net." |
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Rhys
Karma Whore
Joined: 01 Feb 2006
Posts: 4574
Location: Upon the high horse of self-destruction
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| Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 2:59 pm Post subject: |
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| rio wrote: | | following the reaper wrote: | | rio wrote: | | FTR, many people like to hear virtuosity for the sake of virtuosity. Just as people like to watch acrobats or jugglers or whatever purely for the sake of seeing something impressive that hardly anyone else can do, so it is for many people listening to technically amazing musicians. |
People.....not me. Whats that from, the matrix? I just really dont care about the technicality of music much at all. Guess ill slither back into the black metal threads around..... |
Yes it doesn't sound like the Prog/Power forums are your natural environment
Me neither, however, so I too am leaving. |
I like PM, but not for the reasons most PM fanboys do, so i only like select bands. Whereas i'll listen to any old bm i can find.
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| huskerc7 wrote: | | I listen to more black metal than anyone at the moment but it's ironic as fuck. |
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Pasqua
Metal Lord
Joined: 23 Jan 2006
Posts: 440
Location: Sao Paulo, Brazil
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| Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 3:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Misha wrote: | | following the reaper wrote: | | fluffy_ferret wrote: | That's exactly what i said?
| following the reaper wrote: | | fluffy_ferret wrote: | Wasn't this a discussion about technical proficiency and not how good you think the albums actually are? ;)
| Pasqua wrote: | | Quote: | | Wintersun is the first thing that came to mind. |
I've just downloaded their first album and gave it a few spins.
It's very good, thanks for the tip, I'll keep an eye on them.
But I still think Hatebreeder is better. I don't think it's crazy to think that, just look at Hatebreeder's scores and Wintersun's, Hatebreeder got 3 100's and one 97. So if thinking Hatebreeder's better is crazy, guess I'm not the only one
One thing I have to admit, Wintersun's debut is a lot better than COB's Something Wild. So there's potential there, maybe their second could be even better. Death and the Healing is AWESOME, they have killer melodies here and there, but there are times the drum goes too fast to the point it becomes annoying. And I think Hatebreeder has a lot more catchy riffs spread throughout the songs than Wintersun's. Not only catchy, but heavy and melodic as hell.
Anyway, thanks for the tip, I loved it. Gonna check other bands mentioned here now. |
|
Technical proficiency has nothing to do with how good an album is. |
|
Well, not really. You kinda said it in your other post, but i meant it in a kinda different way.
Even songwriting skills are nothing without the right passion, and purpose in writing that music. Refer to the thread in General music discussion titled "underground, who needs it?"
So a band with good songwriting skills who are only writing to make money will not be good. A band who are writing music to make convey a message and for no alterior motives can rule, even without songwriting skills. IE - Burzum. Simple, absolutely non-technical music. However, brilliant. |
This thread wasn't about good music however, this thread was about technical perfomance. Like FF said. |
No, I didn't create the thread asking for more technical-performance-based albums. I was just wondering what METAL album you guys like that have great instrumental music, ignoring the vocal part.
But since I mentioned Bodom, and Bodom is indeed technically dificult, people got the wrong idea and started posting just technical-impossible stuff. I didn't like Dragonforce. I don't care if a guy can play 760 notes per second. I was just wondering what METAL album do you guys recommend that has great instrumental parts, and that's all. Doesn't have to be ultra-mega-technical.
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stuartn15ted
Metal King
Joined: 19 Oct 2005
Posts: 1428
Location: Brighton
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| Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 3:17 pm Post subject: |
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I asume you've check out Sinergy already??? To Hell And Back is one of my all time favorites, has the best solos ever on that album!!!
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Rhys
Karma Whore
Joined: 01 Feb 2006
Posts: 4574
Location: Upon the high horse of self-destruction
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| Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 3:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Pasqua wrote: | | Misha wrote: | | following the reaper wrote: | | fluffy_ferret wrote: | That's exactly what i said?
| following the reaper wrote: | | fluffy_ferret wrote: | Wasn't this a discussion about technical proficiency and not how good you think the albums actually are? ;)
| Pasqua wrote: | | Quote: | | Wintersun is the first thing that came to mind. |
I've just downloaded their first album and gave it a few spins.
It's very good, thanks for the tip, I'll keep an eye on them.
But I still think Hatebreeder is better. I don't think it's crazy to think that, just look at Hatebreeder's scores and Wintersun's, Hatebreeder got 3 100's and one 97. So if thinking Hatebreeder's better is crazy, guess I'm not the only one
One thing I have to admit, Wintersun's debut is a lot better than COB's Something Wild. So there's potential there, maybe their second could be even better. Death and the Healing is AWESOME, they have killer melodies here and there, but there are times the drum goes too fast to the point it becomes annoying. And I think Hatebreeder has a lot more catchy riffs spread throughout the songs than Wintersun's. Not only catchy, but heavy and melodic as hell.
Anyway, thanks for the tip, I loved it. Gonna check other bands mentioned here now. |
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Technical proficiency has nothing to do with how good an album is. |
|
Well, not really. You kinda said it in your other post, but i meant it in a kinda different way.
Even songwriting skills are nothing without the right passion, and purpose in writing that music. Refer to the thread in General music discussion titled "underground, who needs it?"
So a band with good songwriting skills who are only writing to make money will not be good. A band who are writing music to make convey a message and for no alterior motives can rule, even without songwriting skills. IE - Burzum. Simple, absolutely non-technical music. However, brilliant. |
This thread wasn't about good music however, this thread was about technical perfomance. Like FF said. |
No, I didn't create the thread asking for more technical-performance-based albums. I was just wondering what METAL album you guys like that have great instrumental music, ignoring the vocal part.
But since I mentioned Bodom, and Bodom is indeed technically dificult, people got the wrong idea and started posting just technical-impossible stuff. I didn't like Dragonforce. I don't care if a guy can play 760 notes per second. I was just wondering what METAL album do you guys recommend that has great instrumental parts, and that's all. Doesn't have to be ultra-mega-technical. |
Nattens Madrigal. Im serious.
If you like Bodom, have you heard Warmen? No real vocalist, part instrumental, very, very good band.
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| huskerc7 wrote: | | I listen to more black metal than anyone at the moment but it's ironic as fuck. |
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Pasqua
Metal Lord
Joined: 23 Jan 2006
Posts: 440
Location: Sao Paulo, Brazil
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| Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 3:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Nattens Madrigal. Im serious.
If you like Bodom, have you heard Warmen? No real vocalist, part instrumental, very, very good band. |
Will check'em, thanks.
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Rhys
Karma Whore
Joined: 01 Feb 2006
Posts: 4574
Location: Upon the high horse of self-destruction
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| Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 3:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Pasqua wrote: | | Quote: | Nattens Madrigal. Im serious.
If you like Bodom, have you heard Warmen? No real vocalist, part instrumental, very, very good band. |
Will check'em, thanks. |
Its Janne Warman, the keyboardists band. Sort of like a more PM Bodom, with no harsh vocals and lots of instrumental/classical-inspired stuff.
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| huskerc7 wrote: | | I listen to more black metal than anyone at the moment but it's ironic as fuck. |
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Pasqua
Metal Lord
Joined: 23 Jan 2006
Posts: 440
Location: Sao Paulo, Brazil
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| Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 3:47 pm Post subject: |
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| following the reaper wrote: | | Pasqua wrote: | | Quote: | Nattens Madrigal. Im serious.
If you like Bodom, have you heard Warmen? No real vocalist, part instrumental, very, very good band. |
Will check'em, thanks. |
Its Janne Warman, the keyboardists band. Sort of like a more PM Bodom, with no harsh vocals and lots of instrumental/classical-inspired stuff. |
I love his solos in every bodom song. Mask Of Sanity is godlike!
Warmen seems great then, Bodom without the harsh vocals? Perfect! 
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Pasqua
Metal Lord
Joined: 23 Jan 2006
Posts: 440
Location: Sao Paulo, Brazil
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| Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 4:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Pasqua wrote: | | following the reaper wrote: | | Pasqua wrote: | | Quote: | Nattens Madrigal. Im serious.
If you like Bodom, have you heard Warmen? No real vocalist, part instrumental, very, very good band. |
Will check'em, thanks. |
Its Janne Warman, the keyboardists band. Sort of like a more PM Bodom, with no harsh vocals and lots of instrumental/classical-inspired stuff. |
I love his solos in every bodom song. Mask Of Sanity is godlike!
Warmen seems great then, Bodom without the harsh vocals? Perfect! |
OH MY GOD.
I just downloaded "Salieri Strikes Back", from Warmen.
ABSOLUTELY AMAZING. It has it all. Nice melodies, great keyboard solos that reminds me of 16-bit videogame music, classical inspired ... And sometimes I thought I was listenening to Black Diamond (  ) ... I don't even have words to thank you ... Gonna try to find more stuff from them now ...
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stuartn15ted
Metal King
Joined: 19 Oct 2005
Posts: 1428
Location: Brighton
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| Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 4:13 pm Post subject: |
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| stuartn15ted wrote: | | I asume you've check out Sinergy already??? To Hell And Back is one of my all time favorites, has the best solos ever on that album!!! |
Well if you didn't know Alexi and Roope are both in this band.
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Pasqua
Metal Lord
Joined: 23 Jan 2006
Posts: 440
Location: Sao Paulo, Brazil
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| Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 4:24 pm Post subject: |
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| stuartn15ted wrote: | | stuartn15ted wrote: | | I asume you've check out Sinergy already??? To Hell And Back is one of my all time favorites, has the best solos ever on that album!!! |
Well if you didn't know Alexi and Roope are both in this band. |
To Hell And Back is one of my all time favourites too !!! I just love Return From the Fourth World ... again, Laiho destroys in this one.
Still looking for some more Warmen ...
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