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Eyesore
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 Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2006 7:24 am Post subject: |
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| emperorblackdoom wrote: | Eyesore-You bring up some good points, but I still genuinely dislike Evanescence.
The Gathering's Mandylion featured 6 minute songs and even tribal drumming.
I have only heard the 4 singles from Evanescence's Fallen so maybe some of their non-single songs aren't 3 minute pop songs featuring chorus ad-nauseum?
Don't get me wrong, I like Amy Lee's voice, but I consider Bring Me To Life one of the worst songs ever. |
That's fine. People can dislike Evanescence, that's cool, but just saying things like "they are nu-metal" and not backing it up is stupid. They're not nu-metal at all. If In Flames are nu-metal, how are Evanescence?!?! Hahaha.
Evanescence are melodic goth rock, they are catchy, so they will inevitably be called "pop." I still don't find much difference between them and Flowing Tears or Elis or even bands like To/Die/For or Poisonblack. No one will call them nu-metal or pop, so why does Evanescence get it? Because their label put one rap/rock dude on one song? |
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North From Here
Jeg lever med min foreldre
Joined: 02 Nov 2004
Posts: 5312
Location: USoA
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| Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2006 7:36 am Post subject: |
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| Yes, they are melodic goth rock, and they are catchy. I would never call them nu-metal. I'd lump them in with those bands you mentioned, although I would draw a distinction between them and at least some Gathering albums. Lacuna Coil is really no different either, but they never had a guest rapper, and they are Italian. I imagine Evanescence being American and popular hurts them a great deal among some circles. I might even like their next album if they vary diversify their songwriting some. Part of me will always hate them for Bring Me to Life, yet I sometimes get Amy Lee stuck in my head. |
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MetalStorm
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Joined: 20 Sep 2005
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Location: From the sunshine state of Euphoria
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| Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2006 8:30 am Post subject: |
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Well I gave you my reasons I just prefer more operatic vocals in female singers.Would I go as far as to say they suck nah but overall I'm not into her voice therefore I'm not into Evanescence
Of course there are those that aren't into Nightwish or Epica because they don't like Tarja's or Simone's voice but like Amy Lee's voice so go fig.
You have to understand Eyesore that there are people that just don't like bands like Evanescence because they are mainstream,they are commercial,their songs have no soul so forth and so on so don't be surprise if you don't get logical answers especially concerning a band like Evanescence. |
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Eyesore
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| Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2006 8:41 am Post subject: |
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| emperorblackdoom wrote: | | Yes, they are melodic goth rock, and they are catchy. I would never call them nu-metal. I'd lump them in with those bands you mentioned, although I would draw a distinction between them and at least some Gathering albums. Lacuna Coil is really no different either, but they never had a guest rapper, and they are Italian. I imagine Evanescence being American and popular hurts them a great deal among some circles. I might even like their next album if they vary diversify their songwriting some. Part of me will always hate them for Bring Me to Life, yet I sometimes get Amy Lee stuck in my head. |
I have all of Evanescence's demos and their Origin EP plus a ton of unreleased songs. I was stationed in Little Rock and the music scene was virtually non-existent, so it was easy to get demos from bands. Evanescence's first demo came out around '97–'98, so they've been around for quite a while. I first met Rocky Gray, their drummer, in Camelot Music, a music store where he worked in a mall behind my apartment. He was also the guitarist in Living Sacrifice and Shredded Corpse, and he's the guitarist in Soul Embraced, in case anyone cares to know. In fact, "Tourniquet" from Fallen is an old Soul Embraced demo.
Anyway, because of this I was able to get all these songs, even after I'd left the state and I will tell you that Amy's writing style is very piano-based, I think she'd be better suited for stuff like Tori Amos and Sarah McLachlan. Ben Moody is the one who brought the heaviness to the band, without him I don't think they're replicate what they had before. I think this new album will be very piano-based from Amy's influence, but someone is going to try and recreate their previous sound and I don't think they'll be able to do it. I think the new album will be the album most of the people describe now.
I could be wrong, though. If you could hear all these old demos you'd realize that Amy Lee is far from a bad singer, and she's quite a good songwriter, too.
Last edited by Eyesore on Sat Jan 14, 2006 9:07 am; edited 2 times in total |
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Eyesore
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| Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2006 8:44 am Post subject: |
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| MetalStorm wrote: | | You have to understand Eyesore that there are people that just don't like bands like Evanescence because they are mainstream,they are commercial,their songs have no soul so forth and so on so don't be surprise if you don't get logical answers especially concerning a band like Evanescence. |
I'm not surprised. Just trying to get people to discuss it logically, or maybe even get people to look at it from a different angle because I feel like this if-you're-commercially-popular-you're-no-good attitude is a serious detriment to the music scene that I love. So what if a band gets popular? You turn your back on them? What kind of a fan does that? The scene and the industry sucks now, this sort of thinking is just another support beam for that. You know? The same goes for young kids, or teenagers, coming out swinging and trying to change history. It doesn't help.
And this is all a recent change. It didn't happen 10 years ago. Those trying to go against the trend are simply following a different trend. A worse one. |
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lizardtail
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Joined: 31 Jan 2005
Posts: 2590
Location: Frownland
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| Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2006 11:04 am Post subject: |
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well, um.. supporting music that's already popular is pretty worthless, no?
not that I should be in this thread, I hate every band you've mentioned  |
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rio
MetalReviews Staff
Joined: 17 Sep 2004
Posts: 8266
Location: Leeds, UK
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| Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2006 1:57 pm Post subject: |
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| lizardtail wrote: | well, um.. supporting music that's already popular is pretty worthless, no?
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There's some logic to this. Who wants to listen to the same things as everyone else :?
Even having said that, if you suggested to me that Lacuna Park are even in the same league artistically as the Gathering, then I would suggest you were totally insane even if they were both releasing 15 copies of their albums on wax cylinder. Seriously, you take this "why is everyone here so kvlt?" thing way too far sometimes :? |
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Anonymous
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| Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2006 4:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Evanescence are melodic goth rock, they are catchy, so they will inevitably be called "pop." I still don't find much difference between them and Flowing Tears or Elis or even bands like To/Die/For or Poisonblack. No one will call them nu-metal or pop, so why does Evanescence get it? Because their label put one rap/rock dude on one song? |
Heh, while I haven't heard all the other bands you mentioned there, I would pretty much call Elis pop. (pop probably isn't quite the right term)
I listened to Evanescence's "Fallen" once a long while back. I just couldn't get into it. To me it was very bland and streamlined and didn't really offer anything musically that other bands haven't done better. For me, that's usually a problem because I don't really get excited about a particular sound or element in music that compels me to want to seek out lots of other bands that share that element. Particularly if they are bands of less quality or originality, I just am not interested in listening to that one element for the sake of it. This is especially true if I were to feel like I was listening to another "female fronted gothic band" simply because it's another "female fronted gothic band". It would probably stand to reason then that there'd be no particular genre that I absolutely adore and that I listen to every single band that's in it or alleged to be in it. And that's true for me, and all of this despite black metal probably being my favorite genre (and to some I'm sure this will all sound rather contradictory now)...
There is some truth to the neverending debate of taste and personal opinion in music, but I also think there can be a lot of false closed-mindedness in music tastes. What I mean is, there's a lot of times when someone who is selective in their listening preferences (no mater how many genres these preferences may include) is accused of not being open minded when they don't like a particular album or band. A pissing contest often ensues (sometimes it's a subtle one) that includes comparisons to several other "similar bands" and "not similar bands" and lots of genre terms being tossed about. None of that should really be so necessary. To a certain extent it may largely come back to the question of quantity versus quality, especially if there's a strongly negative relationship between the two (ie, the more you recognize and appreciate quality, the less you do for quantity and vice-versa).
But I also admit that "Fallen" was the only album of theirs I listened to, so I can't compare beyond that. Aside from the overall impressions I got from their music, which weren't particularly positive, I did think Amy Lee probably had a pretty good voice. Why probably? Because I felt like most, if not almost all, of the time she seemed like she was making some kind of extra effort to sound "whiny". The lyrics themselves seem to further emphasize that to me, and I would think one or the other would be more than enough whining. Guess not. ... But anyway, I would not object to hearing more works featuring her vocals, and maybe if the whining/crooning was toned down, I might be able to appreciate it more. Whether or not the other musical aspects would improve (or show more) also would probably be another story, particularly if they want to remain somewhat locked into their existing formulas.
-Tyrion |
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Zadok
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Joined: 09 Feb 2005
Posts: 29818
Location: Manchester, UK
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| Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2006 7:19 pm Post subject: |
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I admit, I like the Fallen album. 'My Immortal' is a great song. Any dislike I have for them is because Amy Lee's screwing the guy from Seether. Ewww! I mean, it'd be like Christina Scabbia sleeping with a member of Slipknot!! Come on!!!
What's that you say? |
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Anonymous
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| Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2006 7:21 pm Post subject: |
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| They don't suck (although they are bland) .. it's just that.. I have thousands of CDs I'd rather listen to. |
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Eyesore
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| Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2006 8:02 pm Post subject: |
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| rio wrote: | | lizardtail wrote: | well, um.. supporting music that's already popular is pretty worthless, no?
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There's some logic to this. Who wants to listen to the same things as everyone else :?
Even having said that, if you suggested to me that Lacuna Park are even in the same league artistically as the Gathering, then I would suggest you were totally insane even if they were both releasing 15 copies of their albums on wax cylinder. Seriously, you take this "why is everyone here so kvlt?" thing way too far sometimes :? |
Well, "who wants to listen to the same things as everyone else" is the sort of mentality that makes people turn on band's that change. I mean, I have friends that will have favorite bands and the second they start seeing 12 year old kids wearing their shirts in the mall, they'll go, "They suck now." I mean...HUH? WHAT? The band may not have changed one bit, that's what's baffling.
As for the Lacuna Coil/Gathering debate. Same thing. Had Lacuna Coil not gotten popular people would still like them. I'm not taking anything too seriously, man, I'm just trying to generate a discussion.
Last edited by Eyesore on Sat Jan 14, 2006 8:05 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Eyesore
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| Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2006 8:04 pm Post subject: |
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| HumanTorch wrote: | | They don't suck (although they are bland)... |
:shock:
I didn't expect that from you.  |
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rio
MetalReviews Staff
Joined: 17 Sep 2004
Posts: 8266
Location: Leeds, UK
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| Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2006 8:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Eyesore wrote: | | rio wrote: | | lizardtail wrote: | well, um.. supporting music that's already popular is pretty worthless, no?
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There's some logic to this. Who wants to listen to the same things as everyone else :?
Even having said that, if you suggested to me that Lacuna Park are even in the same league artistically as the Gathering, then I would suggest you were totally insane even if they were both releasing 15 copies of their albums on wax cylinder. Seriously, you take this "why is everyone here so kvlt?" thing way too far sometimes :? |
Well, "who wants to listen to the same things as everyone else" is the sort of mentality that makes people turn on band's that change. I mean, I have friends that will have favorite bands and the second they start seeing 12 year old kids wearing their shirts in the mall, they'll go, "They suck now." I mean...HUH? WHAT? The band may not have changed one bit, that's what's baffling.
As for the Lacuna Coil/Gathering debate. Same thing. Had Lacuna Coil not gotten popular people would still like them. I'm not taking anything too seriously, man, I'm just trying to generate a discussion. |
As I've said a few times, I do like Lacuna Coil- but the Gathering pwn them in every possible way: Heavier, better melodies, better vocals, more distinctive, more experimental.... The thing is you seem to be imagining that people are only capable of prefering the Gathering because they are too snobbish to listen to LC, which isn't the case. Same with Evanescence. |
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Zadok
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Joined: 09 Feb 2005
Posts: 29818
Location: Manchester, UK
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| Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2006 8:35 pm Post subject: |
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| When they all play he same sort of music, why listen to the worst one? Listen to the best! |
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Eyesore
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| Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2006 8:41 pm Post subject: |
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| rio wrote: | | Eyesore wrote: | | rio wrote: | | lizardtail wrote: | well, um.. supporting music that's already popular is pretty worthless, no?
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There's some logic to this. Who wants to listen to the same things as everyone else :?
Even having said that, if you suggested to me that Lacuna Park are even in the same league artistically as the Gathering, then I would suggest you were totally insane even if they were both releasing 15 copies of their albums on wax cylinder. Seriously, you take this "why is everyone here so kvlt?" thing way too far sometimes :? |
Well, "who wants to listen to the same things as everyone else" is the sort of mentality that makes people turn on band's that change. I mean, I have friends that will have favorite bands and the second they start seeing 12 year old kids wearing their shirts in the mall, they'll go, "They suck now." I mean...HUH? WHAT? The band may not have changed one bit, that's what's baffling.
As for the Lacuna Coil/Gathering debate. Same thing. Had Lacuna Coil not gotten popular people would still like them. I'm not taking anything too seriously, man, I'm just trying to generate a discussion. |
As I've said a few times, I do like Lacuna Coil- but the Gathering pwn them in every possible way: Heavier, better melodies, better vocals, more distinctive, more experimental.... The thing is you seem to be imagining that people are only capable of prefering the Gathering because they are too snobbish to listen to LC, which isn't the case. Same with Evanescence. |
Well, clearly The Gathering are not heavier. I would put money down and say from Manylion on, they've never been heavier.
I'm not imagining anything. I am saying that the general perceptions of Lacuna Coil and The Gathering were once the same. Those two bands were joined at the hip, at least were considered to be so by metal fans in general. The moment Lacuna Coil got popular, what happened? They went from being right there with The Gathering to being another alterna-goth-pop band right up there with Evanescence. That's not my imagination. That happened. |
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noodles
Ist Krieg
Joined: 23 Jul 2005
Posts: 13379
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2006 8:51 pm Post subject: |
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I like Tool, Dredg, and Radiohead (proof I like popular music that 13 year olds worship)
I dislike Evanescence and Lacuna Coil because they aren't very interesting. Amy Lee has a good voice but the music is boring (as the song "Bring me back to life" proves, they are just a chick singing over numetal). Lacuna Coil's music is mildly interesting but their singer's voice isn't. Maybe if Amy Lee sang for Lacuna Coil I might like it, but as it stands they're both very mediocre.
I like The Gathering though, good singer + good songs works well. |
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Eyesore
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| Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2006 9:00 pm Post subject: |
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| They're not nu-metal. |
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rio
MetalReviews Staff
Joined: 17 Sep 2004
Posts: 8266
Location: Leeds, UK
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| Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2006 9:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Eyesore wrote: | | rio wrote: | | Eyesore wrote: | | rio wrote: | | lizardtail wrote: | well, um.. supporting music that's already popular is pretty worthless, no?
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There's some logic to this. Who wants to listen to the same things as everyone else :?
Even having said that, if you suggested to me that Lacuna Park are even in the same league artistically as the Gathering, then I would suggest you were totally insane even if they were both releasing 15 copies of their albums on wax cylinder. Seriously, you take this "why is everyone here so kvlt?" thing way too far sometimes :? |
Well, "who wants to listen to the same things as everyone else" is the sort of mentality that makes people turn on band's that change. I mean, I have friends that will have favorite bands and the second they start seeing 12 year old kids wearing their shirts in the mall, they'll go, "They suck now." I mean...HUH? WHAT? The band may not have changed one bit, that's what's baffling.
As for the Lacuna Coil/Gathering debate. Same thing. Had Lacuna Coil not gotten popular people would still like them. I'm not taking anything too seriously, man, I'm just trying to generate a discussion. |
As I've said a few times, I do like Lacuna Coil- but the Gathering pwn them in every possible way: Heavier, better melodies, better vocals, more distinctive, more experimental.... The thing is you seem to be imagining that people are only capable of prefering the Gathering because they are too snobbish to listen to LC, which isn't the case. Same with Evanescence. |
Well, clearly The Gathering are not heavier. I would put money down and say from Manylion on, they've never been heavier.
I'm not imagining anything. I am saying that the general perceptions of Lacuna Coil and The Gathering were once the same. Those two bands were joined at the hip, at least were considered to be so by metal fans in general. The moment Lacuna Coil got popular, what happened? They went from being right there with The Gathering to being another alterna-goth-pop band right up there with Evanescence. That's not my imagination. That happened. |
They have been heavier in the past, different parts of my list referred to different periods. Of course they became much less heavy- but that's where "more experimental" comes in. LC have never experimented.
And in terms of quality, LC have never been up there with the Gathering. If it took LC becoming popular to make old fans re-evaluate, and realise the disparity that lies between them, then so be it. I was listening to them long before I heard the Gathering- when they were approximately on the same level commercially. As soon as I heard Nighttime Birds, though, I thought I'd never listen to LC again. What LC do well, TG do brilliantly, and they have several additional strings to their bow as well, which LC just don't possess.
I'm not trying to cause trouble here, but it just seems to me that most of your posts recently have revolved around mentioning you like popular bands, and then picking fights with people who don't. (Accusations of snobbery, narrow mindedness, etc). Is this provocation or are you just trying to bring metalreviews.com into the mainstream?  |
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rio
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Location: Leeds, UK
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| Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2006 9:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Eyesore wrote: | | They're not nu-metal. |
No, but I think Evanescence sound a bit "focus group". |
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Eyesore
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| Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2006 10:52 pm Post subject: |
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| rio wrote: | | I'm not trying to cause trouble here, but it just seems to me that most of your posts recently have revolved around mentioning you like popular bands, and then picking fights with people who don't. (Accusations of snobbery, narrow mindedness, etc). Is this provocation or are you just trying to bring metalreviews.com into the mainstream? |
Well, that is just ridiculous. I pick no fights with anyone, I discuss music no different than you. Tell me why people seem to take offense when anyone here defends a band that is "popular?" Answer that question, and then you'll have your answer to your statement above.
If "Accusations of snobbery, narrow mindedness, etc" was directed at me, I'm not quite sure how you got that. If you are saying that I've made comments like that then I'd tell you to piss off because I've not once ever done that on this board. |
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